keylime Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 This hand came up Sat with the lovely pard and I. I won't give you the auction because frankly, it's way too complicated for the run-of-the-mill crowd. It's a two pronged question: 1. Optimal contract?2. Optimal play is? East is dealer, all sides NV: ♠AQx♥x♦KJT9xx♣KQT ♠xxx♥QTxx♦A♣AJ9xx Opening lead, spade ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Glad you choose not to confuse us run-of-the mill players with the auction, or even the final contract. :) Fortunately, I can apply the ZAR bidding machine to these hands. Zar's machine says the optiomal contract is 6.6 club. Well, to be fair, it actually said the optimal contract was 5.8 clubs, but it doesn't assign points for location of trump honors, which can be up to two per hand. Since each hand gets two points for big clubs, the ZAR count increases from 62 (and 5.8 clubs), to 66 (an presumably 6.6 clubs). The safest reasonable contract is 5♣. Reality check for ZAR points. Are you off two aces? No. Are you off two quick tricks in any one suit? No. So optimal contract based soley on "value" rather than tricks is 6♣'s. To make it REALLY easy, the optimal contract is 6♣ by north. Now on the ♠ lead you have two sure spade tricks. But I assume you are playing in clubs from south and this lead is through the ♠AQ. In that case, optimal play in six is tough. If the ♠ hook wins, you surely will be able to establish a second diamond winner in dummy to win 12 tricks. But if it loses, you are surely down one at least. Should you risk the spade hook? How honest does WEST look, and if you refuse the ♠ hook, where are your 12 tricks? A quick, run of the mill look at the hand today, and I decide to simply hook the ♠. The ohter alternative (♦Qx or ♦Q stiff) is too long a shot... however, if WEST is a player who would never, ever lead away from the ♠King, as wrong as it seems, I would win the ♠A, cross to the ♦A, win two ♣ in dummy, and lead ♦King. If queen falls, pull trump and claim. If I have to ruff a ♦. I will not be able to score 12 tricks (5♦. 5♣, and 1♠ simply isn't enough. But then again, against most people, I hook the ♠. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 ♠The optimal contract is 3NT from north if he can bid them before telling he is singleton in ♥, sicne any other lead leads to success. The greatest cardign problem comes when playing 5♣ from south I think, If there wasnt ♦ blockage dummy reversal should look promising, now you lack of 1 entry. Still you can try some sort of it: ♠A, ♦A, ♣10, ♦K and run ♦J discading ♠, if its ruffed opponents will tap dummy(if they can!), but hopefully ♣ come 2-2 for 11 tricks 4♦, 3♣ in dummy, ♠A, 2 ♠ ruffs in hand and 1♦ ruff in hand. Alternativelly East may discard on third ♦, then you need some extra luck: [hv=n=saqxhxdkj109xxckq10&w=s109xhkjxxdqxxxcxx&e=skjxxhaxxxdxxcxxx&s=sxxxhq10xxdacaj9xx]399|300|[/hv] You discarda again your third ♠S and west wins, he is forced to tap dummy (look that he needs a fiendly position there to be able), otherwise you just make 5♣, 5♦ and 1♠, if he is able, you just play another ♦! East cannot ruff, because then you will just play a trump to dummy and dummy is high (you still having 2 trums to take care of ♠) If he instead discards you discard and crossruff for 11 tricks. sadly this line loses to ♦Qxx third offside and a tap avaibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Now to throw some wrinkles into the auction: The KLP auction was this: 2C* (Precision) - 2D* (art ask)2S* (non min hand with shortage, offshape) - 4C* (Redwood)4S* (2 kcs, no queen) - 6C Now that you're at 6C, try to make the hand. Opening lead, spade ten. The declarer is the South hand, FYI. And Ben, the spade hook does win. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 1. 6♣2. Q♠, A♦, KQ♣, K♦, ♦ ruff(not trump finesse)...Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Now that you're at 6C, try to make the hand. Opening lead, spade ten. The declarer is the South hand, FYI. And Ben, the spade hook does win. :blink: Ok.. but optimal contract still is 6♣ by South... how come KLP couldn't find that (hehehe). Ok, as I said before best chance is to hook the ♠Q despite tthe opening lead. Big sigh of relief when the ♠Q wins. Now you have several lines of play. All based upon diamonds behaving (4-2 or 3-3). Misho lost me on his line, as he seems to be cashing then ruffing a ♥, or assuming the opponents will win the ♥K and return a ♥ for him to ruff. My line would be win the ♠Q, the ♦A, then duck a ♥ at trick three. I have a two pronged attack planned. One is to try to cross ruff the hand, scoring 2♠, 2♦, 3♥ ruffs and five ♣ in my hand. Of course, they will try to stop this by returning a ♣ when they win their ♥. But this leaves the ♠A as a late entry to the dummy. So I will now try to score 12 tricks via 1♥ ruffs, and setting up two additional ♦s. I will win the first ♣ in dummy, and ruff a ♦ low. If the ♦Q falls, I will pull trumps and claim, if not, I ruff a ♥, play the top ♣, ruff a ♦high (I still have ♦K in dummy. Pull trumps, cross to ♠A, and win ♦ king and long diamond (after two diamond ruffs, I win 4♦, 2♠, 1♥ ruff, and 5 ♣. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I really don't understand what you guys understand for "optimal contract". I think the optimal contract is the one that gives you the best IMP average based on IMPs to be won and percentage of times the hand will make. 6c in my modest opinion is a horrible horrible contract. If the spade hook doesn't win you are automatically down 1 at trick 1, even if the spade hook wins you have problems. And I really doubt this horrible slam is being played at the other tables. I'm not sure if 5c from South or 5d from North is the optimal contract. Mathematically 5c seems to be best but bridge-wise I think I will make 5d more times than 5c. Because 5d is a very solid contract unless they lead exactly a heart and switch to spades at trick 2. Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Hi Ben!, you may still have problems scoring your low ♣ on a corss ruff, if they instead of playing a ♣ play a ♠ you have to a third ♦ low in your won hand and a third ♠, anyway still seems the best line of play. I agree with you Luis!, 6♣ is far from a good contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I completely agree with Luis on this one, 6♣ is too much for a healty life :) 5♣ seems sound, and pretty unbeatable in a lot of cases, but 5♦ is even more sound imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Hi Ben!, you may still have problems scoring your low ♣ on a corss ruff, if they instead of playing a ♣ play a ♠ you have to a third ♦ low in your won hand and a third ♠, anyway still seems the best line of play. I agree with you Luis!, 6♣ is far from a good contract. My low turmp is going to ruff a ♠... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlPurple Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Can't make 6♣ on that lot even double-dummy with North as declarer.Can't even make 4♦ on that lot - 9 tricks is the limit in diamonds.3NT can't make either. The only making game is 5♣. I will go up with the ace, diamond to my ace, trump to dummy then K and J of diamonds throwing my losing spades. Presumably West now attacks with 2 rounds of hearts and I have to ruff in dummy and play another diamond. Because East has started with 3 clubs it makes whether he ruffs in or not - if he does then I overruff and cross to dummy with the last trump to score the diamonds, if he does not then I discard a heart, ruff a spade and then the rest of my trumps are high for a cross-ruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Can't make 6♣ on that lot even double-dummy with North as declarer.Can't even make 4♦ on that lot - 9 tricks is the limit in diamonds.3NT can't make either. The only making game is 5♣. I will go up with the ace, diamond to my ace, trump to dummy then K and J of diamonds throwing my losing spades. Presumably West now attacks with 2 rounds of hearts and I have to ruff in dummy and play another diamond. Because East has started with 3 clubs it makes whether he ruffs in or not - if he does then I overruff and cross to dummy with the last trump to score the diamonds, if he does not then I discard a heart, ruff a spade and then the rest of my trumps are high for a cross-ruff. That is exactly the line I posted on the hand I gave 'hipotetically', I am not the topic starter so I don´t know the real hand. On the other hand.... Ben if you want to score 2♠+2♦+8♣ there are 2 low ♣ to score from your own hand, not only 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted May 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 OK here's the four hands for you: [hv=d=e&v=n&w=skt953hk93d84c863&e=sj6haj865dq732c54]266|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] And to repeat: [hv=n=saq2h7dkjt965ckqt&s=s874hqt42dacaj942]133|200|[/hv] Have fun troops :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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