Codo Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 This scenario: You play the Individual championship in your state. Most play the given system, 5 card majors, strong NT, transfers papa-mama bridge. Lebensohl and or Scrambling are not part of this system. You sit down opposite an unknown partner, maybe you had heard about him, but you never played with him before. [hv=d=n&v=n&s=sa92ht85dat83ct43]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] partner rho: you lho 1 NT 2♠ 2 NT pass3♣ 2 Spade showed spadesSo, please don't critisze the 2 NT bid, you made it and have to life with it. What do you do now? What do you expect partner to have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I expect partner to have bid an automatic lebensohl. I have the stopper so 3NT. If he's too scared he could bid 4♣ over 3NT, but I'm not passing 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Lebensoh is not part of the system. I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If partner makes this 3♣ bid then IMO it is over 99% he thought we were playing lebensohl. If the point is that partner alerted 2NT then sure that gives me UI but I would never ever ever ever pass 3♣ because even behind screens the odds he thinks it's lebensohl dwarf the odds he meant 3♣ as natural. You can think of it another way. If you are wrong, it's a lot less harmful to be wrong by bidding 3NT which you might even get lucky and make. It's quite harmful to pass 3♣ and be wrong. In short, at the table I do not consider pass a logical alternative, despite the previous answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Lebensoh is not part of the system. I pass. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner. I bid 3NT. Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠. Maybe we're really lucky and we make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner. I bid 3NT. Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠. Maybe we're really lucky and we make. Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME SEE ABOVE LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner. I bid 3NT. Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠. Maybe we're really lucky and we make. Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME SEE ABOVE LOL LOL at you for LOLing for the wrong reason. If partner really does have clubs then he is running because he is weak, and they will usually set up their tricks before we set up ours. You should LOL at passing because 3♣ is almost never meant as natural, it's always someone who thought we were playing lebensohl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner. I bid 3NT. Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠. Maybe we're really lucky and we make. Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME SEE ABOVE LOL :P Dude. Then I feel totally lucky that it wasn't a lebensohl response. I definitely am not expecting 6 clubs but hey I'd be happy for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well we're already screwed on this board most likely. I'd totally expect this to be a leb. response from partner. I bid 3NT. Maybe we're lucky and they were going to make 2♠. Maybe we're really lucky and we make. Why is this lucky, if partner has 6 clubs I have the BEST HAND EVER AND EXPECT THIS TO MAKE WAY MORE THAN 50% OF THE TIME SEE ABOVE LOL LOL at you for LOLing for the wrong reason. If partner really does have clubs then he is running because he is weak, and they will usually set up their tricks before we set up ours. You should LOL at passing because 3♣ is almost never meant as natural, it's always someone who thought we were playing lebensohl! LOL, yes obviously 3♣ here is lebensohl even though partner forgot, and that is 95% of the reason you should pull. Still disagree that we are usually going down in 3N opposite even a 14-count with 6 clubs. I was LOLing the hog because if you think 3♣ is not lebensohl, then we have an even better reason to bid 3N now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 OK, so, changing this just a hair... Your partner is a client. He's a money bridge player, plays the spots off the cards but refuses to play anything fancier than Jacoby 2NT. Doesn't even know what Lebensohl is. If you are absolutely certain that this is not Lebensohl, would you pass or bid 3NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 OK, so, changing this just a hair... Your partner is a client. He's a money bridge player, plays the spots off the cards but refuses to play anything fancier than Jacoby 2NT. Doesn't even know what Lebensohl is. If you are absolutely certain that this is not Lebensohl, would you pass or bid 3NT? 3NT. Well, it depends on what 'plays the spots off the cards' means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I expect partner to have a 1NT opening. Also expect he thought we play lebensohl. If not, he has good long clubs. Either way, 3NT. If he alerted and we didn't have the agreement we play lebensohl, then it gets tricky. But if the FACT is we didn't agree to play lebensohl, then we don't play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 If someone would bid 3NT after partner has alerted 2NT, then I'll wish him very good luck in the committee. He will need it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 If someone would bid 3NT after partner has alerted 2NT, then I'll wish him very good luck in the committee. He will need it. :D Is this true? God I keep on getting mixed reviews on this subject. If we didn't agree to play Lebensohl then I don't care if he alerts it or not I can still bid 3NT, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 If someone would bid 3NT after partner has alerted 2NT, then I'll wish him very good luck in the committee. He will need it. :D Is this true? God I keep on getting mixed reviews on this subject. If we didn't agree to play Lebensohl then I don't care if he alerts it or not I can still bid 3NT, right? umm no, after the alert you have UI regardless of what your agreement was since you know partner is bidding 3C since he thinks 2N is artificial. Thus if passing 3C is a logical alternative you should pass. Agree with MFA that you will never win this committee, and I would think very little of anyone who actually bid 3N after the alert and then tried to get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 As strongly as I feel about this, it's definitely true that committees have consistently ruled against the 3NT bidder when this happens (and it has happened a lot.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Your partner is a client. He's a money bridge player, plays the spots off the cards but refuses to play anything fancier than Jacoby 2NT. Doesn't even know what Lebensohl is. If you are absolutely certain that this is not Lebensohl, would you pass or bid 3NT? If I am absolutelly sure it is not lebensohl, with a beginner partner I would bet he took 2NT as minors. If partner is an experienced player who didn't ever learn conventions, 3♣nat would pass his mind as a stop, and so I stop because his clubs are broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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