mtvesuvius Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 With partner dealing, All Vulnerable at IMPs, you hold: ♠ 852♥ Q54♦ AQJ3♣ QJ7 P - (P) - 1♦ - (1♠)X - (P) - ? Double was Negative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 2♥, 7 cards is ok and preferable to an unknown minor fit.fwiw a "live" partner of mine tells me not to open these flat 12 counts unless I have ♠'s and another partner wouldnt open it because it doesnt meet the rule of 20, maybe thats 1st 2nd position only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 1NT. Stoppers Shmoppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 1N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 1NT, perfect option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 1NT on this auction is std to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Agree with 1NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 yep you don't need a stopper in this auction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 maybe thats 1st 2nd position only. Yes, this is an obvious 1♦ opener in third, no matter your opening style in any other seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 agree 1nt...I really try to avoid responding to a neg x in a 3 card major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 1NT on this auction is std to me. Me too as we are often endplayed into 1NT at this level. If PD is interested in 3NT (unlikely after passing) he can ask for a stop later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 1NT on this auction is std to me. Me too as we are often endplayed into 1NT at this level. If PD is interested in 3NT (unlikely after passing) he can ask for a stop later. Don't particularly agree with this, this is just a risk we take on when we bid 1N with this kind of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Other than because its one less trick to get why is 1nt is preferable to 2♥ in this auction, because the hand is so flat? With 2344 2353 would you bid 2♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Other than because its one less trick to get why is 1nt is preferable to 2♥ in this auction, because the hand is so flat? With 2344 2353 would you bid 2♥? Hmm..OK with unstopped 2344 I can rebid 2♣. With 2353 unstopped I can rebid ♦ if they are strong like here but with a card added or if my ♥ are strong and ♦ weak I may try 2♥. But with the text hand, I dislike 2♥ with flat 3343 junk. Time for me to take another look at Bergen's NegX book. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 1N seems clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Other than because its one less trick to get why is 1nt is preferable to 2♥ in this auction, because the hand is so flat? With 2344 2353 would you bid 2♥? Hmm..OK with unstopped 2344 I can rebid 2♣. With 2353 unstopped I can rebid ♦ if they are strong like here but with a card added or if my ♥ are strong and ♦ weak I may try 2♥. But with the text hand, I dislike 2♥ with flat 3343 junk. Time for me to take another look at Bergen's NegX book. .. neilkaz .. Rebidding 2♣ with 2344 implies 5/4 and rebidding 2♣ (2353) with only 5 is something I try to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 More than once, I have seen advice for responder to make a negative double although having only three in the unbid major because the responder has an uncomfortable hand to bid anything else. Combined with opening hands like this, we might get to play a 3-3 fit :) Not the end of the world, of course, but some partnership guidelines perhaps are useful to limit the times that a promised 4-card major is only three cards, both in negative doubler's and opener's hand. I would definitely lean to requiring that negative double that promises the unbid major(s) does not fudge, so that opener can comfortably bid 2H _ _sometimes, rarely _ _ with only three cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted February 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I chose 2♣ (feel free to LOL). All pass and partner had: ♠ xxx♥ AT8x♦ x♣ KTxxx I played ♥ correctly and made 2♣. NT looks pretty good too, but all's well that ends well :angry:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I chose 2♣ (feel free to LOL). All pass and partner had: ♠ xxx♥ AT8x♦ x♣ KTxxx I played ♥ correctly and made 2♣. NT looks pretty good too, but all's well that ends well :angry:.I guess I could just LOL, but you should really think about the consequences of bidding 2♣ here, and in general, think about the consequences of making a strange bid before you do it. In this case, partner will often take you back to a preference with 2 diamonds, thinking you are 5-4 in the minors, and many other bad things can happen by describing your hand as 5-4 (partner will often compete to the 3-level!). The upside is very low; this bid is likely to end well (or just okay) for you only if partner holds 5 clubs, and it will be a wash when partner has long diamonds and was always going to bid 2♦ over 1N. You can also very easily be playing 2♣ or 3♣ when 1N is your last making spot. Occasionally partner will have 6 hearts as well, but as a passed hand this is unlikely. Overall I hope it's clear to you why this bid is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Other than because its one less trick to get why is 1nt is preferable to 2♥ in this auction, because the hand is so flat? With 2344 2353 would you bid 2♥? I think the point is that while 2♥ may be a better contract than 1NT, it will also make partner more enthusiast so we get too high. But indeed, with a doubleton there is little hope of ruffing anything in the hand with short trumps (whether it's a 4-3 fit or 5-3). I voted 2♥ though, for the same reason as you gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I chose 2♣ (feel free to LOL). All pass and partner had: ♠ xxx♥ AT8x♦ x♣ KTxxx I played ♥ correctly and made 2♣. NT looks pretty good too, but all's well that ends well :P. Your partner didn't raise eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted February 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I chose 2♣ (feel free to LOL). All pass and partner had: ♠ xxx♥ AT8x♦ x♣ KTxxx I played ♥ correctly and made 2♣. NT looks pretty good too, but all's well that ends well B).I guess I could just LOL, but you should really think about the consequences of bidding 2♣ here, and in general, think about the consequences of making a strange bid before you do it. In this case, partner will often take you back to a preference with 2 diamonds, thinking you are 5-4 in the minors, and many other bad things can happen by describing your hand as 5-4 (partner will often compete to the 3-level!). The upside is very low; this bid is likely to end well (or just okay) for you only if partner holds 5 clubs, and it will be a wash when partner has long diamonds and was always going to bid 2♦ over 1N. You can also very easily be playing 2♣ or 3♣ when 1N is your last making spot. Occasionally partner will have 6 hearts as well, but as a passed hand this is unlikely. Overall I hope it's clear to you why this bid is wrong. Yeah, I knew it was wrong when I bid it (LOL), however, I also knew that my partner was not very experienced and would have passed 1NT with xx AJxx Kxxxx xx or something... Unless 1NT is our last makeable contract, 2♣ isn't terrible... However 1NT looks better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Other than because its one less trick to get why is 1nt is preferable to 2♥ in this auction, because the hand is so flat? With 2344 2353 would you bid 2♥? I think the point is that while 2♥ may be a better contract than 1NT, it will also make partner more enthusiast so we get too high. But indeed, with a doubleton there is little hope of ruffing anything in the hand with short trumps (whether it's a 4-3 fit or 5-3). I voted 2♥ though, for the same reason as you gave. Thanks Helene. Forum readers are usually advocates of 3 card raises so I was interested in what the difference was with this hand. My 2♥ is the least enthusiastic bid I can make, maybe I should rethink the 1nt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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