jdonn Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Of course both things are not the same and I am exagerating, but so was josh when he said 2♠ would be completelly artificial (its the kind of game we use to play here :D) No I wasn't. It does not show extra spade length at all. That means it is artificial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 If I said that 2♥ not showing 3 card support for partner's suit is artificial would you take me as crazy? :D My point is: Anything that differs from your standard aproach is artificial for you, but doesn't have to be for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 If I said that 2♥ not showing 3 card support for partner's suit is artificial would you take me as crazy? :) My point is: Anything that differs from your standard aproach is artificial for you, but doesn't have to be for others. 2♥ showing 2+ is natural because it shows heart length that you haven't shown yet.2♠ showing a balanced hand without three hearts is artificial because it says something completely unrelated to your spade length. Why am I even having this discussion? You seem to think "natural" means "standard", and "artificial" means "not standard". That is of course ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Yeah its ridicoulous, but now you say it, we should be advised of treatments that are not standard, not aritificial. 2♠ shows spades its natural (confirms 4 and not 3 lol), it is just common logic that lets us know that it must be 4324 since nothing else is possible. Oh now I see it, it also implieaes 12-14 wich is the main problem for most people in this thread. Anyway none of my arguments will convince you, so ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 2♠ shows spades its natural (confirms 4 and not 3 lol)Agree with lol. ;) Oh now I see it, it also implieaes 12-14 wich is the main problem for most people in this thread.THAT is the main problem for most people in this thread? Where do you get this stuff? Anyway none of my arguments will convince you, so ok.I don't even know what you are arguing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think South showed three card support with 2H. If that *is* the agreement that it shows 3-card support, then North has to share some of the blame when South never heard North has five hearts. If that is not the agreement, could someone construct a viable hand in the bidding where South only has two card hearts? Still, 3NT instead of 3H by South was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hum.. was 2♣ GAME forcing? Yes! Then what's wrong with North bidding 3♥ after 2♥? 3♦ doesn't help clarifying his intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hum.. was 2♣ GAME forcing? Yes! Then what's wrong with North bidding 3♥ after 2♥? 3♦ doesn't help clarifying his intentions.I believe I addressed this already. The way I play South could had bid 2♠ if he had only 2 hearts. 2♥ shows 100% 3 cards, that would transfer blame to north. Even if that's true then 3♦ is completely normal. It's a possible slam hand, and I like playing slams in 5-4 and 5-5 fits better than in 5-3 fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well, then I think we'll have to agree to disagree (not surprisingly.. lol). 3♦ may be completely normal (I disagree), but I think it's utterly irresponsible to bid like that if you're not 100% sure you can clear up later what the fit is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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