deep Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Natural Sistem 4° Major 1♠ (2♦ ) double (pass)2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand? [hv=d=n&v=b&s=saj10ha6d10cj1097632]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Natural Sistem 4° Major 1♠ (2♦ ) ! (pass)2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand? [hv=d=n&v=b&s=saj10ha6d10cj1097632]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] Hi there I'm assuming that there are actually two different questions: The first is whats the right bid after 1♠ - (2♦) - ??? The second assumes that you passed over 2♦ and you now need to decide how to advance after partner reopens with 2♥. Let's take these in order: First: What's reasonable after 1♠ - (2♦) - ??? This is a rough hand if you're playing 4 card majors. Many people solve this problem by using a scheme like the following 2N = a limit raise in Spades with 4 card supportA cue bid = a limit raise in Spades with 3 card support (This creates other problems, most noteably how to show a natural 2NT bid, but nothing in life is perfect) Alternatively, I think that 3♣ is perfectly reasonable.I think that pass is dreadful. Second: Let's assume that you passed originally. Anything you do right now is going to dreadfully misrepresent your hand.I'd probably bid 4♠ and hope that partner doesn't make 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Natural Sistem 4° Major 1♠ (2♦ ) Contro (pass)2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand? <!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> AJ10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> A6 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> 10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> J1097632 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end --> Hi there I'm assuming that there are actually two different questions: The first is whats the right bid after 1♠ - (2♦) - ??? The second assumes that you passed over 2♦ and you now need to decide how to advance after partner reopens with 2♥. Let's take these in order: First: What's reasonable after 1♠ - (2♦) - ??? This is a rough hand if you're playing 4 card majors. Many people solve this problem by using a scheme like the following 2N = a limit raise in Spades with 4 card supportA cue bid = a limit raise in Spades with 3 card support (This creates other problems, most noteably how to show a natural 2NT bid, but nothing in life is perfect) Alternatively, I think that 3♣ is perfectly reasonable.I think that pass is dreadful. Second: Let's assume that you passed originally. Anything you do right now is going to dreadfully misrepresent your hand.I'd probably bid 4♠ and hope that partner doesn't make 6 No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Contro means double.Surcontro is redouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Natural Sistem 4° Major 1♠ (2♦ ) Contro (pass)2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand? <!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> Both </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> AJ10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> A6 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> 10 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> J1097632 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end --> Hi there I'm assuming that there are actually two different questions: The first is whats the right bid after 1♠ - (2♦) - ??? The second assumes that you passed over 2♦ and you now need to decide how to advance after partner reopens with 2♥. Let's take these in order: First: What's reasonable after 1♠ - (2♦) - ??? This is a rough hand if you're playing 4 card majors. Many people solve this problem by using a scheme like the following 2N = a limit raise in Spades with 4 card supportA cue bid = a limit raise in Spades with 3 card support (This creates other problems, most noteably how to show a natural 2NT bid, but nothing in life is perfect) Alternatively, I think that 3♣ is perfectly reasonable.I think that pass is dreadful. Second: Let's assume that you passed originally. Anything you do right now is going to dreadfully misrepresent your hand.I'd probably bid 4♠ and hope that partner doesn't make 6 No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass double sorry no contro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass Sorry about that... Didn't understand the initial auction. For what its worth, I don't like starting with a double. I'm torn whether its better to introduce clubs or show support with some kind of Spade raise. Suggesting that I have hearts seems like an ugly distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass Sorry about that... Didn't understand the initial auction. For what its worth, I don't like starting with a double. I'm torn whether its better to introduce clubs or show support with some kind of Spade raise. Suggesting that I have hearts seems like an ugly distortion. At first open 1♠ no 5 cards, after with 2♥ patner give me 5♠, then not possible give a support ♠ in first answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 3S. You have discovered a fit, and you have inv. values,show both. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 No after 2♦ i bid contro no pass Sorry about that... Didn't understand the initial auction. For what its worth, I don't like starting with a double. I'm torn whether its better to introduce clubs or show support with some kind of Spade raise. Suggesting that I have hearts seems like an ugly distortion. At first open 1♠ no 5 cards, after with 2♥ patner give me 5♠, then not possible give a support ♠ in first answer Hi Deep: You seem to assume that you need 4+ card spade support to show support for partner's 1♠ opening. I'm not sure if this is true... I play LOTS of 4 card majors. If you require 4+ card to raise partner you're going to run into lots of problems on relatively simple/common hand types. As I noted before, lots of people who play 4 card majors have two ways to show a limit raise in this type of sequence. One raise shows 4+ card support. The other shows three card support. Last, but not least: If you refuse to show support for partner's spades, I have to believe that 3♣ will work better than double. You have a seven card suit with a stiff diamond. This has to be better than making a bid that is designed to show heart length. Please note: I'm not claiming that I'd make a three card spade raise even if I had one available. 3♣ might very well be the best bid even if I could raise spades. I'm just saying that the one bid that I would not chose is double. BTW, if I do double, then I'm going to game force over 2♠. You claim that 2♥ promises 5+ spades so we're assured an eight card fit. My Ax in Hearts is presumably sitting across some heart length. I have a stiff diamond and ruffing values in the short hand. GF seems pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 3♠ seems normal, 4♠ is not wrong either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 3♠. I would have bid 2♠ at my first turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicklont Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 3♠ But I would have bid 3♦ in the previous round.No double without hearts.The cuebid shows fit and limit or better values. I owe partner a spade, but it's a better call than 3♣ (yuk). With 4 spades, by the way, i think 4♦ is the best call in the first round, showing splinter and fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 1S (2D) Dbl, I assume in a natural system the Double is negative double and shows hearts. If you did Dbl and partner bid hearts, he did not "bid" them, he "supported" your hearts - which you do not have. Instead of Dbl, you should have either shown clubs or supported spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTime Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Natural Sistem 4° Major 1♠ (2♦ ) double (pass)2♥ (pass) ? what bid South with this hand? Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: MP ♠ AJ10 ♥ A6 ♦ 10 ♣ J1097632 Playing 4-card majors partner bids 2♥ after your negative double. So, partner must have 5-spades. Having 4-4 in the majors, partner would have opened with 1♥ not 1♠. So, I will bid 4♠ without even thinking about it. With my singleton diamond and distribution and first round controls, I am even better than a negative double.Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old York Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hi Even when playing a 4 card major system, over 90% of 1 spade opening bids show 5+ card suit. With hearts the figure is near 80% This freak hand could take a lot of tricks with spades as trumps, do not worry that partner may have only 4 card spades, if he does have 4 spades then he must have a good hand (probably balanced) After the diamond overcall, I would support spades (never double) Game in Spades seems reasonable Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi Even when playing a 4 card major system, over 90% of 1 spade opening bids show 5+ card suit. They play strong notrump so this may not be true (depending of whether they play up the line or not). Anyway I agree the first bid is 2♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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