kenberg Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Parents: Do you have children trying to choose a path in life? A recent report ranks mathematics as a top career choice. In explaining their choice they note: "Mathematicians ranked at the top of a list of 200 professions because they rarely work outdoors and don't have to deal with toxic fumes and noise unlike, say, sewage-plant operators... " If your child says things such as "I would rather shovel ***** than do algebra" refer him/her to this report. http://mathdl.maa.org/mathDL?pa=mathNews&sa=view&newsId=499 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Parents: Do you have children trying to choose a path in life? A recent report ranks mathematics as a top career choice. In explaining their choice they note: "Mathematicians ranked at the top of a list of 200 professions because they rarely work outdoors and don't have to deal with toxic fumes and noise unlike, say, sewage-plant operators... " If your child says things such as "I would rather shovel ***** than do algebra" refer him/her to this report. http://mathdl.maa.org/mathDL?pa=mathNews&sa=view&newsId=499 That report has generated MUCH amusement here at The MathWorks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 You can also study astronomy, and then become a mathematician afterwards :rolleyes: The skills you learn are similar, but instead of being labeled as studying something that people find boring, people are more interested in what you studied. Somehow people can connect more to someone studying cosmology or galaxy dynamics than continuous fractions or algebraic topology... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Courter also earns more than the median income for a mathematician. She works, and presumably lives, in San Francisco. She'll need it. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnneM Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 If your child wants to pursue an education in the Arts please do not discourage them. There are wonderful careers available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 "Mathematicians ranked at the top of a list of 200 professions because they rarely work outdoors and don't have to deal with toxic fumes and noise unlike, say, sewage-plant operators... " Is that really the typical decision one has to make about their professional life? If you have the aptitude to be a professional mathematician, would you even consider working in sewage? At the risk of seeming elitist, I think that's a job you take because you don't have a real profession. It's not like you can go to college to get a degree in sewage working. I'm a little curious what they consider a professional mathematician. There are lots of professions that make heavy use of mathematics, such as physicists, financial analysts, or mathematical software developers. How many people can really make it as a pure mathematician? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Philosophers (12) beating Physicists (13) ? Sounds like an insult to me ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'm a little curious what they consider a professional mathematician. There are lots of professions that make heavy use of mathematics, such as physicists, financial analysts, or mathematical software developers. How many people can really make it as a pure mathematician? Obviously it's all a bit random, because they've counted a software developer as a mathemtician, but have actuaries and statisticians as separate professions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Oops! I had not anticipated serious responses! Maybe mathematicians just have a weird sense of humor but it cracked me up to see mathematics being touted as a career because you don't have to work outdoors and smell awful stuff the way a sewage worker does. i never take these career advice things at all seriously. When I was in high school I took they gave us all a test that was supposed to determine what sort of careers would be suitable for us. We were to choose things we liked, they would tell us what career to choose. Afterward, one of my classmates checked with me to see if I thought he got the answers right! He was planning on being an engineer, so he tried to answer the questions the way an engineer would. I answered as best i could and they suggested I should be a farmer. Sorry, I'm a city boy. Mathematics was definitely not advised for me. They graded careers with letters, farmer and I think pilot were rated A for me, mathematician C or C minus. My approach was simple and I think satisfactory: Find something that you are reasonably good at and that you enjoy, and figure out if/how you can make a living at it. Neither of my daughters are mathematicians, not would I suggest that they should be. They chose careers that suit them and it seems to have worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Philosophers (12) beating Physicists (13) ? Sounds like an insult to me ;) i beg your pardon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Philosophers (12) beating Physicists (13) ? Sounds like an insult to me ;) i beg your pardon? what part of ":)" did you not understand? :) (I am studying Physics and I am surrounded by people who think Philosophy is boring and pointless. I disagree with them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Mathematics: Art or science? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 One of the reasons to get a "higher" education.. ;) ..song lyrics? :o http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgCfnBtF7M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Mathematics: Art or science? Mathematical truth is based neither on experimental verification nor on aesthetic pleasure so I would claim it cannot easily be placed in either category. I think most of us, if forced to choose, would call it a science because of the following fundamental feature: When the proper evidence is produced then a conclusion is universally accepted regardless of preferences. That slightly overstates matters because there are arguments about constructivism and such things that go to the philosophical foundation of mathematics, but these arguments are largely ignored by working mathematicians and the criteria for publication are right or wrong, new or not, important or not. If it's ugly but right, then it's right and so it's right. And publishable. I think it was Hardy who said that there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics. Sort of a variation on "Truth is beauty, beauty truth". Perhaps so, but this is a hope rather than a criterion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Philosophers (12) beating Physicists (13) ? Sounds like an insult to me :( i beg your pardon? what part of ":)" did you not understand? :) (I am studying Physics and I am surrounded by people who think Philosophy is boring and pointless. I disagree with them.) i should have put a :) in mine, it was meant to be humorous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I intended the whole damn thread as humor. The best laid plans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ..song lyrics? You mean to tell me that when Sly and the Family Stone sang "Let Me Take You Higher" it was about mathematics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ..song lyrics? You mean to tell me that when Sly and the Family Stone sang "Let Me Take You Higher" it was about mathematics? No, I think they were speaking of bidding a bridge hand there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ..song lyrics? You mean to tell me that when Sly and the Family Stone sang "Let Me Take You Higher" it was about mathematics? No, I think they were speaking of bidding a bridge hand there. Right. Probably a bridge hand over troubled water, at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 It's not like you can go to college to get a degree in sewage working. I strongly suspect that you can get a degree in a discipline that is focused on waste management, sewerage treatments, and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 "Mathematicians ranked at the top of a list of 200 professions because they rarely work outdoors and don't have to deal with toxic fumes and noise unlike, say, sewage-plant operators... " Is that really the typical decision one has to make about their professional life? If you have the aptitude to be a professional mathematician, would you even consider working in sewage? At the risk of seeming elitist, I think that's a job you take because you don't have a real profession. It's not like you can go to college to get a degree in sewage working. I'm a little curious what they consider a professional mathematician. There are lots of professions that make heavy use of mathematics, such as physicists, financial analysts, or mathematical software developers. How many people can really make it as a pure mathematician? As mentioned, I found the whole thing pretty hilarious. As far as choices are concerned though, I gave some thought, maybe not a lot, to dropping out of college. In the summer between my junior and senior year I had a job making good money working outdoors with older guys, using muscles and some fairly heavy equipment. I thoroughly enjoyed that summer. This was combined with the fact that a recent job before was a thoroughly boring job in a physics lab. Way too boring to describe. Still, I like math and I knew I liked math, but I was tempted and I can see how someone might make a different choice than I did. The guy who owned the company probably lived pretty good, and I think I could have learned how to do that. Mathematics is for people who like mathematics. It pays well enough, but not a fortune, and it is really too hard to do unless you enjoy it. I do, some don't. They should do something else. The whole concept of ranking professions is seriously flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Given that 99.99% of the world does not work in a profession...hmmmm :)Add in 99% who work in a profession but do not work in an advocation. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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