mtvesuvius Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) 1♣ - (X) - XX - (2♥) - P - (P) - 2♠ Is this forcing? Is X (instead of bidding 2♠) penalty? Edited... Sorry about it being ambigous... Edited January 22, 2009 by mtvesuvius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 2♠ is forcing , Shirley? I think you mean is XX penalty? - that depends how you play it B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I believe 2♠ is forcing, and I don't know which double you are asking about being penalty (you mean the 2♥ bidder doubling 2♠? Seems unlikely to me under any circumstances, but penalty.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 You mean if the 2♠ bidder doubled 2♥ instead of bidding 2♠? That's obviously penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Since it's clear now, I'll clarify too. I think a good rule would be that after a strength showing redouble by either side, all doubles are penalty. Edit: I rethought this and should have tossed in "except by the original takeout doubler of the suit he originally doubled." (1♣) - X - (XX) - P(1♠) - P - (2♣) - P( P ) - X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Being (so far) the only vote for 2S not forcing I'll state my case. At the time of the XX, this sowed a good hand. The auction came back with 2H.A double is for penalty.He is required, I assume, to not pass. Logic, it seems to me, is that 2S is a fulfillment of an obligation to not pass. I don't imagine 2S will often be passed but I see no reason to play it as forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we redouble holding a major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have played this as NF with at least one regular partner. However, we had agreed to play a form of lebensohl in these auctions. I'm not saying it's best, but I was at least glad we had it agreed. Certainly an area to discuss with your regular partner. Another (somewhat related) issue is whether your 2♠ should be forcing if you play the XX in some other fashion (such as a transfer). Obviously this is a big aside from the original post, since all of the meanings of our doubles have potentially changed. But my point is more generally that discussing competitive auctions with your regular partner is of paramount importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 How can a hand that doesn't want to bid 1S forcing over their t/o X want to play in 2S? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 How can a hand that doesn't want to bid 1S forcing over their t/o X want to play in 2S? Maybe he was hoping they would bid spades, so he could double for penalties. I've done it in cases like... 1♠ X XX 2♦-P- -P- 2♥ hoping that they'd end up in 2♥ in a 6 card fit. Seems a bit, um, deterministic on the actual auction, but I can imagine some of my partners trying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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