awm Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 [hv=d=w&v=b&s=s3ha765dak876cak7]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West deals: PA - PA - 1♥ - 2♦2♥ - PA - PA - ?? What's your call vulnerable at IMPs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I lead the ♦A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I don't think I would dismiss this problem so quickly. What do you need to make 3NT? 1) ♠A, ♦Qxx2) ♠A, ♣Qxxxx3) Spade stopper, ♦Q, ♣Qxxxx4) Heart second stop with ♦Qx or ♦Jx(x), a spade stopper and some other holding somewhere that will produce a ninth trick.5) Some other assorted holdings which include a spade stopper. Pard might have raised to 3♦ on (1). But he could easily have passed on (2) or (3). There are probably other holdings covered in (4) and (5) on which partner had no call over 2♥. So, how do you go about getting to 3NT, short of bidding it yourself? Double is going to get a spade bid out of partner (perhaps a lot of spades). 3♥ commits you to 3NT or the 4 level without any assurance that you can make. 3♦ is certainly a misdescription of your hand. 3♣? You are only a card off (a fourth club). That may be the way to go. Now, if partner has some of the magic holdings that I mentioned above, he may be able to take a forward going call such as 3♥ over which you will gladly bid 3NT. But I may be dreaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichMor Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 An unhappy Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is a tad weird. I'll assume, based on my 18 HCP, that partner could have a complete Yarb. If the opponents have the full weight of their bids, partner probably has about 3 points, which is insufficient for many actions. Partner is probable to not have four diamonds and is probable to have at most one heart. That gives partner nine cards in spades and clubs. Partner could easily have a 5-1-3-4 yarb. Against that, as mentioned, he could also just have a fifth club with the Queen and the diamond Queen. A spade stopper is unnecessary, IMO, becasuse the opponents probably do not have five cashing spades. They can, of course. But, probably less than 50-50. I cannot get the info I need, though, and I cannot share what I have. But, I'm not getting rich defending 2♥. I might set it one trick, but I probably can make 3♣ or 3♦. So, I'll bid 2NT to imply 6-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Agree with 2♦, now I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 3♣ for me. Pard either has 3 diamonds or a bucketload of clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I bid 3♣. Partner has extremely little which is why he didn't bid, but we probably have a fit. Lol at the thoughts of 3NT. Art do you realize some of the hands you suggest are essentially grand slams in a minor??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 3♣, partner either has 4♣ or 3♦ here... Unless he didn't pre-empt on QTxxxxx x Jx Jx :). Also, LOL @ 3NT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I suggest you reread my possibilities. None of them is going to offer great play for a grand in a minor. Some might offer reasonable play for a small slam in a minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I suggest you reread my possibilities. None of them is going to offer great play for a grand in a minor. Some might offer reasonable play for a small slam in a minor.My answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time? Not sure who you are asking. I just skimmed the thread and your post is the first mention of 5♣ I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time? Not sure who you are asking. I just skimmed the thread and your post is the first mention of 5♣ I see. It seems to me that the only incentive to compete is if we think we can bid and make game somehow. If we are never bidding game, I'm not sure why I wouldn't just defend 2♥, it seems like we could very easily beat this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time? Not sure who you are asking. I just skimmed the thread and your post is the first mention of 5♣ I see. It seems to me that the only incentive to compete is if we think we can bid and make game somehow. If we are never bidding game, I'm not sure why I wouldn't just defend 2♥, it seems like we could very easily beat this. I agree we will often set 2♥. But they could also make 2♥. And I presume you agree that we will often make 3 of a minor. Sometimes even when they could also make 2♥. And of course sometimes the opponents bid one more. Doesn't that just all combine into the nature of balancing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Do people think 2N here is natural or something? I thought that if you bid this was an obvious 2N and would expect partner to pass 3C with 1 more club than diamond. Also I think the fact that RHO is third seat changes this problem a lot, the opps might have only a 43 fit which decreases our chance of finding a fit and increases the amount that we will beat them. Overall I think I would pass, but don't feel great about it. edit: just noticed that Ken also bid 2N rather than 3C... weird I am starting to agree with you Ken more than anyone Oo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 [hv=d=w&v=b&n=skq985hqt2dj9cj65&w=s3ha765dak876cak7&e=st764h3dqt54c9842&s=saj2hkj984d32cqt3]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] 2♥ passed out at the table. It is possible to beat this by leading a spade early in the hand and then underleading the diamond honors to get a spade ruff. This defense wasn't found at the table however, and 2♥ made. 4♦ is cold and 5♦ can be made if played carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Seems that East could have helped out by bidding 3♦ over 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Agree I think the east hand is worth 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Seems that East could have helped out by bidding 3♦ over 2♥. Agree. Pard with the heart length will find it very awkward to continue if we pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 2 HCPS and a 4144 is enough to justify a raise? And you better pass this, cause 3 NT will be down, maybe doubled. Bad luck that you miss 3 NT next time when pd bids the obvious 3 Diamond with Axxx,x,Qxxx,Qxxx. But hey, in this case the community will say, why didn't you bid 3 NT? Didn't you hear partner bidding 3 ♦ freely? I think that bidding 3 ♦ with the east hand is taking a good idea much too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Bad luck that you miss 3 NT next time when pd bids the obvious 3 Diamond with Axxx,x,Qxxx,Qxxx. LOL I think that bidding 3 ♦ with the east hand is taking a good idea much too far. It seems that you haven't heard of the idea of adding points for shortness yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Bad luck that you miss 3 NT next time when pd bids the obvious 3 Diamond with Axxx,x,Qxxx,Qxxx.But hey, in this case the community will say, why didn't you bid 3 NT? Didn't you hear partner bidding 3 ♦ freely? Wouldn't he bid 2NT (good ♦ raise) with that? The rule of 40 says that bidding 2NT naturally after 3 others have bid is not a good idea. If you really have the 2NT hand and partner could raise to 3, he would balance after 2♥ with a Dbl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 If you play 2NT as natural, bidding 3♦ with East hand is a big missdescription. Non jump raises in competitive situations are constructive, and should have some defensive values. As East you have 4♦ avaible for a very good description of your hand, surprisingly it will also lead to a good contract. Pass is also very reasonable if partner is the kind of guy who will reopen with 4 hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) If you bid 3♦ with the East hand and partner bids 3NT, there's no rule that says you have to pass. Why wouldn't you just put him back to 4♦? However, I agree with Fluffy that this is a 4♦ bid over 2♥. Sometimes it's opener who has the 18-count; if you bid 3♦ it will often continue 4♥-pass-pass and you will have no idea whether to save. 4♦ transfers this decision to partner. Edited January 25, 2009 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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