A missed game

[1eyedjack]

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=skq42hakt84d4cq64&e=sj9865hqj9dk32ck5]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Uncontested auction went

W E

1♥ 2♥

P

 

We were about the only ones to stay out of 4S. Interested in comments.

 

System is 2/1 with Granville (sometimes known as Kaplan Interchange) where 1♠ response shows up to 4-♠ and 1NT response shows 5+♠

 

Issues are:

1) Is East worth forcing to 3♥ opposite 1♥ opener (what does Zar have to say about this?)?

2) After a simple 2♥ raise by East, is West worth another try (again, what does Zar indicate)? This may depend on partnership agreement over whether direct 2♥ raise is stronger or weaker than via 1? response. Do you use the different raises to distinguish range or do you always bid the ♠ on the way if you have them?

3) 4♠ is just as good a contract if you give East ♦x instead of ♦K. Would you bid it differently in that event (within the system constraints already given)?

[luis]

Zar... Zar... Zar... You don't need zar to reach this game :-)

 

After 1h-2h opener has a 5 loser hand, so there's no reason to pass 2h, use whatever you have in your bag of conventions to invite, showing a side suit with 2s or a shot suit with 3d. No matter what you show responder with 10HCP will accept the invitation.

 

1h-2h

Foo! - 4h

 

Life is simple.

[inquiry]

[hv=d=w&v=n&w=skq42hakt84d4cq64&e=sj9865hqj9dk32ck5]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Uncontested auction went

W E

1♥ 2♥

P

 

We were about the only ones to stay out of 4S. Interested in comments.

 

System is 2/1 with Granville (sometimes known as Kaplan Interchange) where 1♠ response shows up to 4-♠ and 1NT response shows 5+♠

 

Issues are:

Luis is right, this is an easy one to bid. Zar points will get you there, but even people who never heard of the prophet ZAR should stumble into game here. I will agree with luis for the ways for the non-ZAR aware to find their way.

 

1) Is East worth forcing to 3♥ opposite 1♥ opener (what does Zar have to say about this?)?

 

East is not worth forcing to 3♥. He has a soundish constructive raise from 1♥ to 2♥. Since he chose the ♥ raise directly with this hand, I assume he plays pretty constructive raises.

 

What does ZAR say about EAST's hand? Zar likes it. The 5-3-3-2 distribution in worth 11 Zar distributional points. The ten hcp are worth 10 ZAR points. The two control points are worth 2 Zar points, and the QJx of ♥'s is worth 2 ZAR points for trump honors. There is no superfit points, as East just has 3 trumps. So this totals up to 25 Zar points. How many ZAR points are needed for game? Why, 52, and partner promised 26. So Zar says that EAST hand is almost good enough to force to game (and at imps vul, maybe you want to force to game) opposite a 1♥ opening bid. So ZAR points, I think, would suggest that 2♥ is a huge underbid.

 

So I would have shown my spade suit by bidding (in your system) 1NT. I expect partner, can know go leaping to game. His hand is great for spades. He has 36 ZAR points up front, plus 2 more for the spade honors, and because of the superfit and the singleton, he gets to add 2 more. That is 40 ZAR points. It is hard to imagine a hand where EAST will not have 16 ZAR points for a 1NT response (showing 5 spades), so game will be reached. Mabye with a splinter jump to 4♦ over 1NT. East knows the ♦K is not very useful then and will stop in 4♠ perhaps.

 

2) After a simple 2♥ raise by East, is West worth another try (again, what does Zar indicate)?  This may depend on partnership agreement over whether direct 2♥ raise is stronger or weaker than via 1? response.  Do you use the different raises to distinguish range or do you always bid the ♠ on the way if you have them?

 

What does ZAR say? IF a limit raise to 3 shows, for sake of arguement, something like 23 to 25 ZAR points, a raise to two should be less than that. How much less is up to you I guess. I would say at least a trick less. So lets say 1M-2M shows on the range of 18 to 22 Zar points (with less, bid 1NT then 2♥ maybe). So assuming your partner could have as few as 18 ZAR points, should you bid again with WEST? Question is how many ZAR Points have WEST once East raises? 14 Zar distributionl pts, 18 hcp - zar pts, 4 control Zar pts, and 2 pts for top two ♥ honors. This totals 38 ZAR points. For the two hands, 38+18 (min) = 56 minimum ZAR points. So West should forgo inviting (if the Zar minimum is right for your 2♥ raise and probably should just bid game (after all East wouldn't have to be minimum).

 

I use different ranges to show different raises.

 

3) 4♠ is just as good a contract if you give East ♦x instead of ♦K.  Would you bid it differently in that event (within the system constraints already given)?

 

Take away the ♦K east loses 4 ZAR points to drop from 25 to 21. Perfect for a 2♥ bid (orginal hand too strong), and raising with support is right. However, I probably would bid 1NT (your method showing ♠'s, planning on rebidding 2♥ or passing 2♥ or 2♠ rebid by partner. If I bid 1NT, I will be in 4♠ lickity plit anyway. However, if you choice to bid 2♥ the bidding should still be 1H-2H-4H if counting Zar points.. .depending upon the minimum value promised by 2H raise.

 

Ben

[Flame]

As you can see, this game is made even though there are many wasted values, this mean it should be easy to reach it.

Like luis said opener cant pass 2h with the 5.5 losers

But also responder can bid more with his hand, in not sure what your 2h shows, but responder's hand is 10 hcp + 1 point for doublton so its better then 6-10 or even 8-10, also he got only 8 losers which is too good for 2h, (yet its much better to bid 2h then to pass 2h).

I would bid 1sp with it, and 3h later.

[Trpltrbl]

I guess I am only one to bid♠, I have easy rebid after any of my pd's bids.

Simple game.

But now that I supported ♥, I think west is too good to pass, any gametry will work. But I rather be in 4♠ then 4♥.

 

Mike :D

[mishovnbg]

1. Yes (3 cover cards)

2. Yes (5.5 losers); in example 1♠(1NT) expecting to rebid 3♥.

3. Bidding if E didn't have ♦K: 1♥-2♥, 2♠-3♠, 4♠. I play nat game tries to choose best game include 3NT with major fit.

Misho

[1eyedjack]

Thanks for the replies all.

 

East has the first decision to make, and critical to this is whether the hand is worth 3♥, and the majority verdict is in favour of this evaluation.

 

Had the hand been worth only 2♥ then I tentatively believe that the hand should respond 2♥ in preference to showing the ♠ suit on the way, as subsequent preference to ♥ may be on a doubleton ♥. This could discourage opener from making a game try. If you are going to split the ranges for giving a raise (a) directly v (b) via FNT then it makes some sense I think for the direct raise to be stronger. Sure, direct is more preemptive, and that argues for the weaker option, but in that case you should perhaps raise with a doubleton and a weak hand, as otherwise a raise via FNT could be either constructive with 3 support or weak with 2 support, and I feel that the range of playing strengths then places opener in an impossible position about whether to proceed beyond 2Major

 

The flip side is that if West has a good hand in support of ♠ then a game may be found when West might marginally decide to pass a direct 2♥ raise.

 

If East is worth a raise to 3♥ then it certainly makes sense to show the ♠ on the way. Cannot see any downsides to that.