blame game

[jillybean]

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=shjt2dkt97532cj96&s=skj94hak5dj8ct743]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     3♦    3♠    Dbl

 RDbl  Pass  Pass  Pass

 

[qwery_hi]

S 100%. I don't think 3♦ promised any defense. Also, after the rdbl, I'd bid 4♦

[mtvesuvius]

South 100%. North cannot pull, East is guessing, and has apparently guessed wrong. South's double promises a lot more. Even if the 10♠ is in dummy, south is screwed. To North, this looks like it could be a huge number... And then West now appears to be adding to the number, south should certainly pull to 4♦, and ofc should not have doubled, especially at IMPs.

[jdonn]

If south could not get too excited over 3♠, he might have gotten to double 4♠ instead. More likely to go down, down more if it's down, less likely to be redoubled, less expensive if they make 10 tricks. Sounds good to me.

[qwery_hi]

If south could not get too excited over 3♠, he might have gotten to double 4♠ instead. More likely to go down, down more if it's down, less likely to be redoubled, less expensive if they make 10 tricks. Sounds good to me.

Yes. If there is one thing to take away from this deal, it is this. before you double a partscore, wait for them to bid a game and then dbl the game instead.

[gwnn]

S

 

[jillybean]

OK thanks. I was North and with the ♠ void I wasnt sure if I should bid 4♦ or leave it to pard.

[mtvesuvius]

OK thanks. I was North and with the ♠ void I wasnt sure if I should bid 4♦ or leave it to pard.

You did fine, partner did not have a X.

[jillybean]

2nd question about preempt stlyes. Does anyone avoid preempting with a 3 or 4 card major? Lets say in 1st or 3rd position. I ask because one partner doesnt like me to preempt with a 3 card major. I think this is too restrictive and perhaps it is the old rules for preempting.

[mtvesuvius]

2nd question about preempt stlyes. Does anyone avoid preempting with a 3 or 4 card major? Lets say in 1st or 3rd position.

I pre-empt whenever I can :blink:... I hold no restrictions whatsoever.

[rogerclee]

I ask because one partner doesnt like me to preempt with a 3 card major. I think this is too restrictive and perhaps it is the old rules for preempting.

This is not a realistic expectation at all, if you never preempt with a 3 card major you are losing a lot of IMPs on very routine hands.

 

I tend to not preempt with a side 4 card major, and I think it is reasonable to not preempt a minor with three cards in both majors (in first or second seat, anyway).

 

I pre-empt whenever I can :)... I hold no restrictions whatsoever.

 

This is the other end of the spectrum, in my opinion this is only a reasonable strategy against weak opposition.

[helene_t]

I pre-empt whenever I can :)... I hold no restrictions whatsoever.

 

This is the other end of the spectrum, in my opinion this is only a reasonable strategy against weak opposition.

I have seen the opposite advice. Against weak opposition you should preempt with discipline as opps may not be able to bid the best contract - and make it - even without your preempt. Against very strong opposition your only chance is to randomize the hand by preempting on weird hands.

[rogerclee]

I have seen the opposite advice. Against weak opposition you should preempt with discipline as opps may not be able to bid the best contract - and make it - even without your preempt. Against very strong opposition your only chance is to randomize the hand by preempting on weird hands.

You are just so much more likely to get a weak opponent to do something stupid after a preempt than a strong one. They also tend to double you much much less than they should (instead they will always try to go for 3NT), they will bid 5 over 5 way too much, etc.

 

I just don't agree with the second statement (at all). Think about matches where you were a huge favorite to win but lost, I bet they were almost all because the other team played relatively solid bridge while you just had an off day or were slightly unlucky. None of them involved the weaker team doing a bunch of weird things on purpose that just happened to work.

[P_Marlowe]

The penalty double is ...

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

Unanimous I think - south.

I agree with you Helene, why play a highly aggressive game against weak opponents? They will self destruct anyway.

[helene_t]

Think about matches where you were a huge favorite to win but lost, I bet they were almost all because the other team played relatively solid bridge while you just had an off day or were slightly unlucky. None of them involved the weaker team doing a bunch of weird things on purpose that just happened to work.

You are probably right. Thanks.

[qwery_hi]

2nd question about preempt stlyes. Does anyone avoid preempting with a 3 or 4 card major? Lets say in 1st or 3rd position. I ask because one partner doesnt like me to preempt with a 3 card major. I think this is too restrictive and perhaps it is the old rules for preempting.

This is one of the lesser factors to think about while preempting.

 

Having a partnership agreement on suit quality and HCP while preempting is more important. Make sure you have an agreement and stick to it. If the suit quality and HCP are ok, I wouldn't mind preempting with a void or a weak 4 card major or a side void.

[Hanoi5]

South but only if the pair is clear that North's hand can be opened with 3♦.

[mtvesuvius]

This is the other end of the spectrum, in my opinion this is only a reasonable strategy against weak opposition.

I generally do :). However I find that it is much more valuable to pre-empt aggresively against good opponents. It creates needed swings.

 

Warning: If your opponents play Fishbein, play strong 3s :)

[Codo]

1. Question: I guess you made a mistake Kathryn.

Not in the bidding that was great, but in the choice of your partner.

 

2. Question: It is modern to make preempts even with 4 card majors aside. I don`t do it and I don`t miss it. Actually we had many fine results when we did not preempt and later made a weak jump. Partner could anticipate that the honour location was wrong for a weak 2/3 bid or that we must have a 4 card major aside.

Up to now it brought much more then it costed.

 

I do understand the point in avoiding preempts with a good 3 card support for a major, but I belive that the downsides are much bigger then the upsides of this idea. And this is not close. To lose, partner must have the major and a hand where he cannot bid over your preempt but could have bid when you did not preempt. Seems to be a rare bird.

[vuroth]

I guess you made a mistake Kathryn.

Not in the bidding that was great, but in the choice of your partner.

Maybe someday we should have a charity BBO tournament, featuring all of jillybean's ex-partners.

 

I'd probably even pay to watch that. Comedy is fun. :) :) :P

[helene_t]

Warning: If your opponents play Fishbein, play strong 3s :)

Nah. If opps play Fishbein, preempt (even) more as they have no adequate defense against it. Once in a blue moon one opp will have a penalty double and the other opp won't take it out and he will be right in not taking it out. Hasn't happened to me so far.

[mtvesuvius]

Warning: If your opponents play Fishbein, play strong 3s :)

Nah. If opps play Fishbein, preempt (even) more as they have no adequate defense against it. Once in a blue moon one opp will have a penalty double and the other opp won't take it out and he will be right in not taking it out. Hasn't happened to me so far.

Not when you pre-empt as often as I do. But yes, you are right Helene.

[ggwhiz]

why play a highly aggressive game against weak opponents? They will self destruct anyway.

I agree on south and especially with just staying in your chair against weak opps.

 

With 2-3 card or 1-4 card major on the side I try to be disciplined by position.

 

1st chair, disciplined except at favorable vul

2nd chair, gilt edged disciplined

3rd, anything goes

4th, anything goes shape wise, but I'm bidding to make with no game ambitions unless pard has a PERFECT passed hand.

[Phil]

Expensive lesson.

 

I would double at MPs however if the opps are Vul.