vuroth Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 1♣ 1♥1♠ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Technically? noWould I ever pass? I have been known to, once, and on that occasion missed a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 1♣ 1♥1♠ ? I suppose responder could have a 4-5-3-1 0 count, and just be trying to get it out of clubs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDluxe Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I absolutely think it's forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 1♣ 1♥1♠ ? In basic Standard American bidding it is non-forcing. In some agreements this sequence is taken as forcing. Time can change the definitions of any bid in any standard system - what was standard in 1950 may not be standard today. My take: always check with pard if he or she considers it forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 A simple new suit rebid by repsonder is forcing. By opener, it is not, unless it's a reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 1♣ 1♥1♠ ? Nope. Responder could have xxxx xxxxx xxxx ---. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Not forcing, but not passed very often. Virtually never with four spades, passing with three is much more common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Some people choose to play this as forcing, but in standard bidding, it is not.In general, after responder's 1-level response, opener's simple rebid, not a reverse or a jump, is not forcing. So after (say) a 1D opening and a 1H response, all of1S1NT2C and2D2H are not forcing After a 1D opening and a 1S response,1NT, 2C, 2D and 2S are not forcing, but2H is forcing, because it is a reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwery_hi Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 How wrong have I been all this time :blink: I somehow had it in my mind that a new suit by an unpassed hand is 100% forcing. Glad I got that cleared up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 How wrong have I been all this time :) I somehow had it in my mind that a new suit by an unpassed hand is 100% forcing. Glad I got that cleared up! You thought.... 1♦ 1♥2♣ was forcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 How wrong have I been all this time :) I somehow had it in my mind that a new suit by an unpassed hand is 100% forcing. Glad I got that cleared up! You thought.... 1♦ 1♥2♣ was forcing? jt youre an ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 jt youre an ass Right, it's much more fun to post misleading questions in trying to win the post-mortem than it is to learn when rules do and don't apply. Most people know the auction I posted isn't forcing. It's easier to remember a few nonforcing and forcing auctions as examples rather than try to memorize a rule that's a lot more complicated that it's set out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 BTW regarding this talk of 0 counts, well sure you would pass with 0, but you can have more than that. It's not uncommon to pass with three spades and up to 6 or even 7 if you aren't well suited for 1NT or going back to partner's first suit. For example with Kxx Qxxxx xxxx x it would be very wise to pass. Where are you going on the hand if partner wasn't good enough to jump shift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwery_hi Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 jt youre an ass Right, it's much more fun to post misleading questions in trying to win the post-mortem than it is to learn when rules do and don't apply. Most people know the auction I posted isn't forcing. It's easier to remember a few nonforcing and forcing auctions as examples rather than try to memorize a rule that's a lot more complicated that it's set out to be. When in doubt, I always followed the rule that new suits by unpassed hands were 100% forcing. The rule served me pretty well too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 jt youre an ass Right, it's much more fun to post misleading questions in trying to win the post-mortem than it is to learn when rules do and don't apply. Most people know the auction I posted isn't forcing. It's easier to remember a few nonforcing and forcing auctions as examples rather than try to memorize a rule that's a lot more complicated that it's set out to be. When in doubt, I always followed the rule that new suits by unpassed hands were 100% forcing. The rule served me pretty well too. Usually, but there are exceptions to any rule :blink:. However it is an excellent guideline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Nonforcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 new suits by unpassed hands as RESPONDER are forcing (unless explicitly agreed otherwise) anyway this is nonforcing, good question, lots of B/I players don't know this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 The key is that opener should always either jumpshift or reverse with a game forcing hand (or if he has support bid game/splinter). If he fails to do that, he does not have a GF hand and thus his bid is NF. Just keep in mind that if he bids a new suit and is not reversing or JSing he could still have up to 17 and some 18s, so his range is very wide. You should keep the auction open if you believe you can still have game. There are certainly hands where you think game is not possible opposite a non JS and could pass, and as jdonn said they are not necessarily 0 counts. The hand he gave is typical, exactly 3 spades and no club support and a 5/6 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Forcing. But basically a matter of partnership agreement. The first question is, how often do you respond with less than 6HCP to an opening bid.If you virtually never do, there is no point in playing 1S as nonforcing, because you wont pass, if it occurrs more frequently, than it makes more sense to play it as nonforcing. I used to say, it is forcing, but my partner has passed at leasttwice, and I seem to recall I started doing it as well, so I guessI should change my answer to nonforcing. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 The first question is, how often do you respond with less than 6HCP to an opening bid.If you virtually never do, there is no point in playing 1S as nonforcing, because you wont pass, if it occurrs more frequently, than it makes more sense to play it as nonforcing. I am fine with playing 1♠ as forcing but you exaggerate. If 1♠ is forcing, responder will more often have to bid 1NT on hands with which he is not comfortable playing 1NT and certainly don't want opener to raise to 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vuroth Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thanks. Glad I'm trying to filter unsolicited advice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicklont Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 In my partnerships1♣ 1♥1♠ can be up to 19 HPC.When responder passes it's because 1♥ was subminimal (5 or less).He must hold 3 spades and 4/5 hearts. With 6 hearts he would have responded 2♥. This sequence (pass 1♠) has occured several times and the result was always satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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