Free Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I was just wondering if it's possible to construct a deal where the par score is 0. Anyone in for a challenge? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, it is possible; I won't post it in case people want to have a go, but there is a fairly well-known construction where (hint hidden) the defenders can cash the first eight tricks against any contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I once had a deal where, based on the deep finesse analysis posted on the hand record as well as my own analysis with a friend, NS were cold for exactly 9 tricks but no more in all five strains. I really wish I had saved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I didn't find any in the first 10,000 deals from the GIB DD database so they must be quite rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwery_hi Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 If neither NS nor EW can make any contract, will the par score of that deal be 0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I once had a deal where, based on the deep finesse analysis posted on the hand record as well as my own analysis with a friend, NS were cold for exactly 9 tricks but no more in all five strains. I really wish I had saved it. Sometimes in DF, there is strain not mentioned because the other side with the lead advantage can negate 7 tricks. I don't know if I've seen this for more than 1-2 strains, but it would be fun to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, it is possible; I won't post it in case people want to have a go, but there is a fairly well-known construction where (hint hidden) the defenders can cash the first eight tricks against any contract. Hidden: How can a defender cash 8 tricks against any contract (except NT I suppose) but not make anything his way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, it is possible; I won't post it in case people want to have a go, but there is a fairly well-known construction where (hint hidden) the defenders can cash the first eight tricks against any contract. Hidden: How can a defender cash 8 tricks against any contract (except NT I suppose) but not make anything his way? Hidden: I didn't say "a defender", I said "the defenders" ... (hmm, these "hidden" discussions get a little silly after a while, don't they? :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hidden: How can a defender cash 8 tricks against any contract (except NT I suppose) but not make anything his way? Hidden: Remember, the defenders get to lead to the first trick. The suit that's led makes all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 If neither NS nor EW can make any contract, will the par score of that deal be 0? Yes. Conversely, if someone can make a contract the par score is not 0, but either the score of the best contract, or the cheapest sacrifice against the best contract. (Or, if 4NT= by NS is the best contract but 5♦ by NS makes as well while 5♣ by EW is a good sac against 4NT, the par score is 5♦ by NS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwery_hi Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 for a very good discussion of par zero deals, see http://bridge.thomasoandrews.com/deals/parzero/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcyk Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thomas Andrew has found a number of hands where no one can make any contract according to double dummy analysis. I believe they have a common theme based on the fact that the opponent gets to make the opening lead. I no longer have the site bookmarked because of crashes and new computers but I will when I leave this site. Search for thomaso to find the site. There are a lot of interesting things there including hands where your best results occur when playing in a 4-2 or 3-3 trump fit. He also has a free bridge dealer program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 nice stuff, :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 par 0 doesn't look hard, what about both sides making 1NT due to not being endplayed on the lead? This might be easy with 7-6s all around, but on regular hands I don't know if its possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 par 0 doesn't look hard, what about both sides making 1NT due to not being endplayed on the lead? This might be easy with 7-6s all around, but on regular hands I don't know if its possible. That's not hard either. But what I also wonder if there are hands that don't have a par score. Your example of every side making 1NT is interesting, especially if everyone is vulnerable. Then what's the par score if every 2-level contract is defeated? Does such hand exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb79 Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 par 0 doesn't look hard, what about both sides making 1NT due to not being endplayed on the lead? This might be easy with 7-6s all around, but on regular hands I don't know if its possible. That's not hard either. But what I also wonder if there are hands that don't have a par score. Your example of every side making 1NT is interesting, especially if everyone is vulnerable. Then what's the par score if every 2-level contract is defeated? Does such hand exist? see the first deal in http://www.rpbridge.net/8k03.htm for an example for everyside making 1nt, but none of the 2level contracts make. As long as the dealer is fixed, there is always a par score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 lol, 3NT making by everyone, 3♠ making by both South and East, 1♥ making for everyone, there is a lot of weird stuff in this game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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