Places for Relays

[awm]

Suppose one is interested in playing a system with very standard opening bids (i.e. five card majors, wide range) and fairly standard first-round responses. Where might it be useful to install some relays in the later auctions? Here's my list so far:

 

(1) 1X-2♣ can be start of a relay sequence (GF balanced or clubs).

(2) After opener reverses, like 1♦-1♠-2♥

(3) After a forcing raise (like 1M-2NT jacoby or limit+)

(4) After a 1NT opening or rebid (although it might be better to have responder describe).

(5) After fourth-suit-game-force is bid at the two-level.

(6) After a limit raise might play "relay for shortage" but not really a full relay structure.

(7) Maybe after a transfer response to 1♣, accepting the transfer can be relay? Or is this crazy?

[Ant590]

We do a partial relay after

 

1M - 2M -

 

1m - 1M - 2M

[Echognome]

I worked out a system playing (1). My experience was that it can work well, but you have to think carefully about how you want to handle the wide range. Definitely some merit in it however.

 

More generally, I would comment that if you scatter your relays amongst so many different auctions, you are going to have a tough time in memory load. Maybe you just want to focus on a few auctions where you see the largest benefits. Maybe you want to consider "partial relays" or "hand types" in others. Obviously a big issue in that regard is what continuations you plan to do thereafter.

 

Now on to some specific comments.

 

(1) Already discussed above

(2) Transfers seem more than sufficient for what is going to be a relatively rare auction.

(3) After a Jacoby raise, one of the last things I want to do is describe declarer's hand to a T.

(4) I agree with your paranthetical remark. Better for responder to describe.

(5) This is more or less the case as is when you have natural responses, however, you don't want your relay to substitute for judgment here. Things like wanting to show 2-card support with Hx, but not with xx make life difficult if you have to bid both hands the same way because of your shape.

(6) A one above asking bid might make sense, although agree that I wouldn't call it a relay.

(7) I wouldn't think a low level relay is too important there, but would think other bids are more useful. However, see below.

 

Finally, I think one are you are missing is a common enough sequence for many players.

 

(8) A relay after a 2♦ artificial GF in 2-way nmf. You can also play it with XYZ with your transfer-responses to 1♣.

[Rossoneri]

We do a partial relay after

 

1M - 2M -

 

1m - 1M - 2M

And this has turned out very useful indeed!

[mikeh]

I have played a relay method based on a 2/1 underpinning. We used relays in the following situations:

 

1. 1♣  1♦... 1♣ could be on 4432. We played this years ago, nowadays would probably play transfer responses. 1♦ was not itself necessarily artificial.. it was multi-purpose

 

2. 1N 2♣ relay stayman over 15-17: very powerful

 

3. 2♣ response to 1♦/♥/♠: either balanced or clubs or very strong (contrary to popular belief, my experience is that relays can work very well even if relayer is unbalanced provided that he is very strong.. with immediate slam interest.. we had a pretty sophisticated method of identifying where all the cards were.. if we had bidding room... which is one reason it needs a big hand to relay when unbalanced) or a gf raise of opener.

 

4. after 4sf... including 1♣ 1♦ 1♥ 1♠.

 

5. After a 2N opening bid: 3♣ began relays

 

These require a lot of work.. the 2♣ relay response to 1♦ was one I wrestled with for all the years we played it.. it was just enough different from the other engines that it required huge effort every time I prepared to play an event.

 

Bear in mind that some of these relays are not lawful in most levels of competition in ACBLand, so you have to balance frequency of use, ease of memory and effectiveness.

 

I think that relays after reverses would be problematic, given that you also need cheap bids as get-out mechansims

 

And after J2N, most play complex structures that are at least partial relays. I assume that you are thinking of responder as the relayer? One issue is that you have already consumed a lot of bidding space.. in my methods (not invented by me, however) we used 2♣ as a gf raise, amongst other possibilities.

[Ant590]

It's not exactly a relay - but we play a 'hand type' response to a good raise of a major:

 

1♥ - 2♠ or 1♠ - 2NT

Step 1 = min with shortage

Step 2 = extras with shortage

Step 3 = extras, balanced, not 5332

Step 4 = min, no shortage

3NT = extras, 5332

Others = good 2nd suit

 

Then relay for location of shortage (HML) after step 1/2 (or sign off with 3M). Then relay for shortage type (void/singleton) and number of keycards. If you structure it with run-ons all of the above fits below 4M (although after "extras club singleton two keycards" you have to condense the two highest steps).

[rbforster]

1♣-1M-2♦ This is often an "overloaded" reverse in that it can contain some difficult hands as well as just ~17+ 4+♦/5+♣. Especially in that case, it might be worth having responder relay shape with GF values (starting with either 2M F1 ambiguous or 2N+(over ♥)/3♣+(over ♠) assuming you use the cheapest non-M bid as your weakness bid).

 

P-1M-2♣* Drury. Seems like 2♦ would make for a good start to a relay sequence when opener has slam interest. Although 2♦ probably wants to include invitational hands too, responder might want to start zooming into shape relays with an acceptance using 2M+1 or higher responses.

 

1m-1M-1N Here it seems like both sides know something and there will be some hands by responder that want to ask rather than tell. Not sure how you want to sort out allocating bids between these (together with all the 2-way NMF style signoffs and invites), but certainly 2-way NMF has tons of ways to bid different things and I'm sure you could put to use 2♣->2♦...3X or some of the other high jumps. That said, 2-way NMF is pretty good as is, so you might gain more by putting effort elsewhere.

[akhare]

> (7) Maybe after a transfer response to 1♣, accepting the transfer can be relay? Or is this crazy?

 

Is it possible to play transfer responses in ACBL land unless 1♣ is 15+? It could work as long as 1♦ / 1♥ is invite+ (with some weak adjunct of course). I am guessing you probably don't want to use 1♠ as a relay (probably puppet to 1N?)

[awm]

Is it possible to play transfer responses in ACBL land unless 1♣ is 15+? It could work as long as 1♦ / 1♥ is invite+ (with some weak adjunct of course). I am guessing you probably don't want to use 1♠ as a relay (probably puppet to 1N?)

It's mid-chart in ACBL-land. But then, most of the events I play in these days are also mid-chart.

 

I was going to suggest something like this:

 

1♣ = natural (includes "11-13 notrump" hands with 3+♣) or 17-21 balanced

.... Pass = 0-3 hcp, sometimes 4-5 hcp with no 4M

.... 1♦ = 4+ points and 4+♥

.... 1♥ = 4+ points and 4+♠

.... 1♠ = no 4M; 5-7 points or 12+ (i.e. inv+ or too weak for game vs. 17-18)

.... 1N = 8-11 hcp, no 4M, at least semi-balanced (i.e. no game vs. weak NT)

.... 2♣/2♦ = natural 5+ with no 4M, in the 8-11 range, NF opposite 11-13 NT

.... 2M = WJS, something like 3-7 hcp (so if 1♦/1♥ include 6cM they will be 8+)

 

1♣-1♦:

.... 1♥ = relay; 17+ hcp

.......... 1♠ = 4-6 points and 4-5♥ (less than GF hand) follow-ups generally natural

.......... 1NT = 4/4 in the majors

.......... 2♣ = 4♥ without 4♠; one of balanced, three-suited, or canape w/ longer minor

.......... 2♦+ = 5+♥ symmetric to relays after 1M-2♣.

.... 1♠ = natural, 4♠ and 4+ clubs, 11-16

.... 1NT = natural, 11-13 balanced no 4♥

.... 2♣ = natural, 11-14 or so with 6+♣

.... 2♦ = not needed as natural really (reverse hands relay); I like this as "good 2♥" bid

.... 2♥ = natural, typically 11-13 balanced with 4♥ or 3♥+small doubleton

.... 2♠/2NT = can be used as strong heart raises of some variety

.... 3♣ = natural 15-16 with a good club suit

 

1♣-1♥ kind of similar, 1♣-1♥-1♠-1NT (4-6 hcp 4-5♠) is passable

 

1♣-1♠:

.... fairly natural follow-ups, many bids very wide-ranging because of responder's split range

[keylime]

In a standard setup I'd use relays in:

 

1. 1NT follow-ons. After the core bids of transfers and accepts.

2. 2C options. Responses instead of being the double negative or controls, to instead make transfers or asking bids.

3. 1M-2C. Excellent place for relays.

4. 1M-GF raise in the major. Ditto number 3.

5. Transfer Walsh follow-ons.

6. NMF and 4th SF follow-ons.

7. After reversing or making strong jumps.