A question about Last Train

[cnszsun]

I get most of my knowledge about "Last Train" from Fred's series article about 2/1, but only 2/1 bidding sequence is discussed in his article.

My question is if you and your partner have decided to use "Last Train", is it necessary to define every bidding sequence where "Last Train" can apply or just say we use it under all the occasions where major is agreed as trump suit? In the latter case, 4♦ or 4♥ will always be general slam try.

In another thread, Ben indicated the the following 4♥ as last train:

S - W - N - E

2♥-P-P-4♦ (where 4♦ = leaping michels showing ♦ and ♠

P-4♥-P-5NT

P-6♠-Pass

another i've ever seen:

1NT - 2♥

2♠ - 4♦ (4♦ show shortness)

4♥ (4♥ is cuebid or last train?)

last train is useful at many such occasions, but do we need pre-agreement on every such cases (of course we can have any agreement we want, but if it's too complex and difficult for memory it will become impractical) or just a general principle can apply?

[the hog]

Good questions. We have defined it as occurring only where a M suit has been agreed, usually in a 2/1 auction. To be honest we have not even thought about it in the circumstances you describe. I'll be interested in what others have to say.

Ron

[helene_t]

I would define last train as an intermediate slam try - too good for a sign-off but not good enough for bidding beyond game level (assuming that as soon as we are beyond game we can't sign off on the basis of general strength but only on the basis on missing controls/keycards). Byt this definition, the first example is not a last train but the second example could be. Another use for the last available bid is to show a control in a different suit, for example:

bla bla

bla 3NT (serious, spades is trumph)

4♦ 4♥ (a club control but no heart control)

I don't think this should be called "last train", but I'm not sure. Anybody knows?

[inquiry]

My treatment of last train is not generally accepted, but let me try to explain my view.

 

1) I treat LTTC as a general slam try (ok everyone does that)

2) I use it very much like maximal double on game try hands,

3) I have a general use as either cue-bid or LTTC that is not accepted practice.

 

 

Let's deal with what I mean by number 2 above. On an auction like....

1♠-(2♦)-2♠-3♦

3♥

 

I play 3♥ = game try and if instead I bid 3♠ that is competitive and to play. This is the so called (I believe), lonely cue-bid. I use the same last chance (last train) cue-bid at the four level to invite towards slam. Ok, I assume you know all the stuff in Fred's 2/1 article. Let's take your second auction as a starting point.

 

1NT - 2♥

2♠ - 4♦ (4♦ show shortness)

4♥ (4♥ is last train?)

 

I play 4♥ not as a cuebid, but as last train. Here I think others would agree, perhaps, since spades have been identified as trumps. I take this bid to mean opener's hand is not horrible given the jump to 4♦ but is not maximum either. 4♠ would be a weaker bid than 4♥ and 4NT would be a stronger bid. However, if responder "signs" off with 4♠ over 4♥, and opener then bids again, then I play this converts 4♥ into a cue-bid and a stronger slam going hand. The logic being that if you make a "SLAM TRY" and your partner signs off, and you bid again, you have an even stronger hand.

 

Now for the auction that even some of my regular partners disagree on, the first one you showed.

 

2♥-P-P-4♦ (where 4♦ = leaping michels showing ♦ and

P-4♥-P-5NT

P-6♠-Pass

 

Here, indeed I play 4♥ as "Last train" and hope someone doubles it so we can use first round showing redouble :( Now, the problem here is that unlike normal auctions with LTTC, trumps have not been agreed. But I think both partners can agree that 1) 4♥ is forcing, and 2) ♠ or ♦ will be trumps. I have found that the use of just below game bid as LTTC works well here. It allows you to separate the I just have preference from ♠ hands (bid 4♠) from the slam forcing hand (blackwood or jump to slam). So I would use it to say "hey, I like that you bid 4♦, and if you have a good hand for your bid (you have to know the range of your partners leaping michaels), then I have some interest in continuing towards slam. Like the earlier auction, if partner "signs off" with 4♠, another bid by the 4♥ bidder would be very encouraging (other than 5♦ which would be to play). One has to remember that the 4♥ bidder passed over 2♥, so his hand is somewhat limited (not short in ♥ with a good hand for instance.

 

Ben

[Trpltrbl]

I don't really care for Last Train, It doesn't happen enough, in my eyes.

Why remember a whole bunch of stuff for something not coming up that much. The few times it does , and either you or pd screw up, I think with good judgement you will get to most of the slams without the chance of mistakes.

 

Mike :(

[inquiry]

I don't really care for Last Train, It doesn't happen enough, in my eyes.

Why remember a whole bunch of stuff for something not coming up that much. The few times it does , and either you or pd screw up, I think with good judgement you will get to most of the slams without the chance of mistakes.

 

Mike :)

Doesn't come up much? Really, everytime you raise partner to game WITHOUT using LTTC, you furhter limit your hand. And when you do use it, you show more than when not. The use of it, or lack of use of it, comes up all the time.

 

The use of LTTC improves your judgement so that you CAN get to most slams without getting too high on non-slam hands. LTTC is one terrific addition to modern bidding theory, and it serves the same type function as maximal doubles and loney cue-bids (lkei this...

 

1H - (2C) - 2H -(3C)

3D ,<<---- game try, says nothing about Diamonds, 3H would be competititve

 

Ben

[bergen]

1H-2C-2H-3C

3D=Last Train.

Dbl mean?

[Flame]

1H-2C-2H-3C

3D=Last Train.

Dbl mean?

Penalty.

Ocourse partner can still bid with hte right hand.

[inquiry]

1H-2C-2H-3C

3D=Last Train.

Dbl mean?

Yes double would be penalty, but I don't know anyone who calls 3♦ on this auction last train. although by analogy it is similar to last train. I forget the name for this "game try", but I think it might be called lonely cue-bid or something like that.

 

Ben