who is to blame

[haver]

Sayc is explicit on trsfr is OFF after interference but many a time i experience experts bidding after 1NT - dbl - 2D as trsfr to H or partner understanding it as trsfr to H :blink:

 

N has

9,8

7,5

10,8,7,6,4,2

9,6,5

 

all vuln. S dealer - bidding goes:

 

1 NT - dbl - p - p - 2H -dbl - p - p -p

 

Should N bid first time? If yes, then what?

Should N bid second time? If yes, then what?

[mcphee]

To my line of thought I do not agree that transfers should be off after dble as it contains many different meanings for defenders. With this thought in mind, why should you give up what are often a partnerships best tools because some guy dbles?

 

If I held this massive hand and my partner was dbled in 1N I do not expect them to hold AKx of my 6 suit and also find it splits 2-2 and we have a bazillion tricks. What takes place when this happens to me is partner holds Kx and the enemy have the last laugh as we go for a number, therefore, i bid what my methods allow. Some of us have run out methods, some do not, but this hand is not going to be dummy in 1NT doubled.

 

Had I passed I would never choose to save partner when they pulled 1N to 2H. They must be single suited and it is too late to save again, we are never escaping the next dble.

 

Who is to blame? The great shuffler is #1, #2 is the hand than failed to bid 2D NF (if that was agreed methods) there is no #3.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

Transfers may be off after interference, but it is unclear in

case the interference is a double.

Lots of players still play system on, if the double was just

conv., i.e. if the double was not a penalty double.

 

If I got it right, the last auction, there is no 2D bid,

opener did bid 2H, in which case you should pass it out,

this answers your last question.

Assuming you did bid 2D, ... tough question, whatever

you do, you need to be lucky, I would pass, but can

understand 3D.

 

To answer you first question: I would pass, but 2D is

worth a try, as long as you understand that the bid is a

bid p may misunderstand.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

why should you give up what are often a partnerships best tools because some guy dbles?

Because you wanna escape on a minor, because you don't wanna give free space to LHO to double, because 2 way bids (strong/weak) are not neccesary any more since you have redouble avaible.

 

On the other side, you really want RHO on lead, that is the only pro for a transfer.

[mtvesuvius]

I think that North should pull to 2♦ assuming it's natural... But I like a fairly simple runout system:

 

1NT - (X*) - ?

*Penalty

 

Pass: Forces XX (Any 4333 or Desire to play 1NT XX)

-----XX: Forced

----------Pass: Desire to play 1NT XX. All subsequent Xs are penalty.

----------2♣: Any 4333 (Opener bids his 4 card suit)

XX: Any 5+ Card Suit. Forces 2♣ to p/c.

Direct Bid: The bid suit and a Higher Suit. (4-4 or better)

2♠: Pre-Emptive; Natural

 

(Note: There are 3 ways to bid 2♠, the most immeadiate is generally the most pre-emptive)

After any of these sequences, X is penalty, and opener should pass unless forced to bid by responder...

 

If the X is non-penalty, then systems should still be on, with XX showing desire to penalize.

[peachy]

SAYC is explicit that after we open 1NT and opponent doubles, all conventional responses are "on". It is also explicit that after an opponent bids (overcall instead of double), all conventional responses are "off"

 

http://web2.acbl.org/documentlibrary/play/...gle%20pages.pdf

[haver]

http://www.fifthchair.org/archive/annam/sayc01.htm#Jxfer

Note 2: Jacoby Transfers are "off" altogether if the NT opening is overcalled.

Note: Jacoby Transfer to minors is "off" altogether if the NT opening is overcalled or doubled.

 

It is rather explicit - though at BBO more often than not experts are transfering after a dbl. Problem with 2!d after 1NT dbld is that if partner thinks it a trsfr then u raise level and u will go down more. Same applies to 3!d which is the bid, if 2!d is trsfr.

About the blame - can u construct any hands to pull 1NT dbld to 2!h by S ???????

[gwnn]

Peachy is right, 1NT-x-2♦ is transfer to ♥ in SAYC.

 

I like Frances' runout scheme.

 

1NT-x-

 

pass=to play 1NTx (opener can bid a 5 card suit though)

xx=penalty, forcing pass etc

2♣=clubs

2♦=♦

2♥=natural

2♠=to play

[helene_t]

I thought in SAYC transfers were on after dbl but off when we overcall 1NT. May depend on the meaning of the double.

 

With a pick-up p I prefer not to play any transfers at all, since I'd rather spend the system discussion time on something other than when transfers do and don't apply.

 

There is only one thing I feel strongly about, though: please no difference between our defense against penalty doubles and against "artificial" doubles. Distinguishing would lead to disaster when they make some vague double in the gray zone between penalty and shape-showing.

 

Ideally I would prefer:

 

1NT-(x)-SWINE or something similar

1NT-(2m)-transfers

1NT-(2♥)-2♠=to play

1NT-(2/3 something)-3something=transfers

(1x)-1NT-(pass)-natural under their suit, transfers, 2♠ staym.

[Gerben42]

It depends a lot on what the meaning of the Dbl is.

 

1NT (X penalty) ?

 

Now a runout makes sense.

 

1NT (X 1-suiter: DONT) ?

 

Now it's fine to play system on, and redoubling on hands that would like to play 3NT but do not have all suits stopped.