Another Discussion Hand

[kenrexford]

Without providing any of the actual hands, here's an auction to consider:

 

1♦-(2♠)-X(negative)-P-

3NT-P-4♠?

 

The thought process...

 

1. What kind of hand will Opener have? Could he have simple a "player" maximum, something like a 4432 14-count? Could he have an 18-19 count, balanced? Could he have a semi-gambling hand (long diamonds, spade stop, prayer)?

 

2. What should 4♠ show/ask? For that matter, and to distinguish 4♠, do 4♥, 4♦, and 4NT have meaning (of course, but what)?

 

3. If something "asks" Opener to clarify his hand type somehow, then how does Opener do this? If both 5♣ and 5♦ show long diamonds over some bid, how are they different?

 

My/Our Thoughts:

4♣=nat, 4♦=real diamonds, 4♥=weak long hearts(nat), 4NT=Quantitative?, 4♠=seeking clarification. Opener bids 4NT with the "player" max. Opener bids 5♣ with long diamonds and a club control, 5♦ with long diamonds but no club control; could reverse these if the partnership style is to emphasize LTTC over Control in a situation like this -- see earlier other discussion on BBF. 5♥+ unknown but definitely acceptance. Did not get that far. 6NT clearly to play; 5NT might be choice?

 

[brianshark]

1. A hand that expects to make 9 tricks in NT opposite a normal 10 count with 4+ hearts.

 

2. Artificial, forcing and interested in slam. 4♥ would be lots of hearts. I guess it would be a single-suited slam try. 4♦ would be lots of diamonds (as well as probably 4 hearts). Initially I would take this as forcing and scrambling for the best game rather than a slam try. 4NT is a quantitative invite to slam (~15 count).

 

3. Abstain. (Theorizing conventions is not my thing.)

[Fluffy]

I don't knwo what 4♥wouldbe, imaginative bid I guess, something to picture shortness in clubs.

 

4♠ is spade shortness, probably void, with 3 suiter or red 2 suiter.

[kenrexford]

3. Abstain. (Theorizing conventions is not my thing.)

You are not supposed to theorize conventions here. If 4♠ has any purpose, then Opener is expected to do something intelligent. Otherwise, just guess at what strain and level yourself.

 

So, what are his natural bids?

 

If 5♣ shows real clubs, then that's OK also, even if possibly strange. But, each call should mean something. If two calls must logically be based upon a certain hand type (maybe two calls do not handle the same hand type), then there must be something different between these two calls, one would think.

[ASkolnick]

I actually think the most practical shape for him would be 1-4-3-5 and a strong hand, but a bad club suit.

 

With a good hand, he could just bid 3X over 2 Spades.

[gnasher]

1. I don't think any weak notrump should bid game. He could have 18-19 balanced, or a non-balanced hand that fancies 3NT. The latter type doesn't have to have solid diamonds - you have to bid something with AQx x Kxxxx AKJx, and 3♣ isn't forcing.

 

2. 4♣ is natural and game-forcing with 4 hearts and 5+ clubs. 4♦ is natural and shows primary diamonds. 4♥ is to play with long hearts. 4NT is a balanced slam try.

 

Possible meanings for 4♠:

- A non-specific slam try, asking for further information. That's what I'd assume without agreement, even though it overlaps somewhat with 4NT.

- A 4NT bid with secondary diamonds

- A 4♦ bid with short spades

- A 1435 slam try

 

3. If 4♠ is asking for further description, 4NT is discouraging, and five of a minor is just natural and encouraging.

[jdonn]

1. Takes more than a weak notrump. Other than that, could be many different hands.

2. Splinter for diamonds is how I would take it. It would take some really detailed discussion for me to think bidding anything else is sane (meaning at the table, not in theory), though I grant that there may be other more useful meanings.

3. I abstain from this question.