inverted minor or something else?

[jillybean]

Playing 2/1, inverted minors partner opens 1♣ and you hold:

 

xxx

Qxx

xx

AQTxx

 

Whats your bid?

[foo]

1N. you are not strong enough for 2m! you are too strong and have the wrong shape (no stiff or void) for 3m!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would go with 1NT, but 3C is fine as well.

Partially it depends on the vulnerability, green

vs. red I would say the hand is too strong

for 3C, but to weak for 2C.

 

The nice thing about 1NT is, that it showes a bal.

hand, at least in this seq.

It may even show 4 clubs, if you always bid 1D

with 4 diamonds, in which case you even would

show the clubs.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[dicklont]

3♣.

I am allowed to hold a maximum, right?

When 3NT is right partner must declare it.

[brianshark]

Normal 1NT.

[Winstonm]

To keep from having too wide of range for 1m-3m, I prefer to limit this bid to 5-7 and therefore am compelled to uitilize 1N for 8-10 range hands. I can't say this is standard so would suggest engaging partner's opinion.

[BobElliott]

Playing strong NT..... i would bid 3C.

 

Playing weak NT(i do)....i would bid 2C .

 

I don't play inverted by a passed hand in which case it's 2C then.

 

:)

[paulg]

Simple 1NT for me too.

 

My rule for bidding 3♣ is that it shows a hand that wants to play in 3♣ opposite a 12-14 1NT. Admittedly I open 1♣ with 2+ clubs more often than most playing 2/1.

 

p

[mike777]

Playing 2/1, inverted minors partner opens 1♣ and you hold:

 

xxx

Qxx

xx

AQTxx

 

Whats your bid?

1nt...KISS

[ASkolnick]

1N for me in SA, but this is my general problem with Inverted Minors. Sometimes you have a simple/constructive raise.

 

Many other treatments you could play.

[kenrexford]

1NT. Partner will expect 4+ clubs, usually.

 

1♦ has some appeal, except that it allows too much to happen at the one-level.

 

1♥ has some appeal as well, except that the suit is a tad weak, the hand a tad too strong for that move, and the preemption too minor.

 

3♣ is too weak a call with this hand, IMO. This is right on the border between 2♣ and 3♣, and I hate making calls on the edge. If someone says 3♣ is right, I won't argue (much).

[blackshoe]

1NT. Partner will know you have four or five clubs, since if you didn't you would have a higher ranking four card suit you would bid. I like the 8-10 range, but some of my partners don't. I guess because it's different to 1NT over 1♦, and they don't want to have to remember there's a difference. :(

[jillybean]

My partner bid 3♣ here and when dummy went down I thought the hand was far too strong, we missed a good game. I have to take responsibility for not bidding again, I was incorrectly thinking 3♣ was much weaker than this. When we were discussing the hand later he said 3m is 5 card support, 8or less HCP which seems to be the standard definition. Still, I consider this hand stronger as do most people who responded.

 

Not only am I having to remember agreements but now I need to take notice and remember styles. My partners bidding in relation to my own style, is aggressive in some sequences and then timid in others. Normal of course but I'm afraid that I am running out of brain cells to store all this. :huh:

[mike777]

My partner bid 3♣ here and when dummy went down I thought the hand was far too strong, we missed a good game. I have to take responsibility for not bidding again, I was incorrectly thinking 3♣ was much weaker than this. When we were discussing the hand later he said 3m is 5 card support, 8or less HCP which seems to be the standard definition. Still, I consider this hand stronger as do most people who responded.

 

Not only am I having to remember agreements but now I need to take notice and remember styles. My partners bidding in relation to my own style, is aggressive in some sequences and then timid in others. Normal of course but I'm afraid that I am running out of brain cells to store all this.  :huh:

For what it's worth I agree this hand is not a weakish 3club bid.

 

If 1nt shows 8-10 and a balanced hand without a 4 card major, why invent bids?

 

This just seems like another in a long line of hands, do we bid constructive or do we try and steal. :P

[jillybean]

If 1nt shows 8-10 and a balanced hand without a 4 card major, why invent bids?

This isnt the limit of a 1nt response in 2/1 is it?

[matmat]

If 1nt shows 8-10 and a balanced hand without a 4 card major, why invent bids?

This isnt the limit of a 1nt response in 2/1 is it?

i think it is over a 1♣ opening. The range broadens over a 1M opening.

[jillybean]

This just seems like another in a long line of hands, do we bid constructive or do we try and steal. :)

I'm not clear on what you mean here?

[brianshark]

The reason 1N has a broad range playing 2/1 when you open 1M or 1♦ is because pard may have up to 11 pts and a suit they can only bid at the 2-level. So they have to lump those hands into the 1NT response. But over a 1♣ opening, there is no such problem. Partner can bid all suits on the 1-level without showing more strength than he has. Therefore less hands are lumped into 1NT, therefore the 1NT bid is more specific.

 

The thing to bear in mind is that 1NT is always the catch-all bid. If no other bid is correct, then bid 1NT. It can be deduced that you virtually always have 4♣s for a 1NT bid since with another 4 card suit, you could have bid it and you have to have a 4-card suit somewhere.

 

And since we play inverted minors where 2♣ shows 10+ and 3♣ shows 0-6/7 or so, then we have a ~7-10 ♣ raise to fit somewhere. 1NT works perfectly for this.

[jdonn]

This just seems like another in a long line of hands, do we bid constructive or do we try and steal. :)

I'm not clear on what you mean here?

I think he means (wondering out loud) do we play the jump raise as 0-5 or 6-9?

[fred]

Suggestion: Define the range of 3C in terms of what partner is expected to do if he holds 18-19 balanced.

 

It is fine if you decide 3C means "I want you to Pass with 18-19 balanced".

 

It is fine if you decide 3C means "I want you to bid 3NT with 18-19 balanced".

 

But it can only mean one of these things - it is not fine if opener doesn't know what to do whenever he has 18-19 balanced.

 

Once you and your partner have made this decision, you won't have as much trouble deciding when to bid 3C.

 

Whatever you decide, you will likely sometimes judge to "psych" a 3C bid on some hands that are slightly out of range (for tactical reasons and/or for lack of a better alternative).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Codo]

I find it very useful to have three kind of raises:

1 ♣ 2 ♣ 12+ GF

2 ♦ 8-10 with clubs

3♣ 5-7

 

YOu give up the strong (or weak) jump in diamonds. No big loss for me, but taste may differ.

 

After 1 ♦ you have 2 ♦, 3 ♣ and 3 ♦ and it works similar.

 

 

If this is too much to remember or you need these jumps for a better purpose, stick to Freds rule.

 

Personally, I prefer the 3 Club bid to have some values, so I am in the "bid 3 NT " camp, but this is just a matter of personal taste again.

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies. Ive been asked to post the full hands painful as it is, here they are;

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s652hq53d93caqt85&s=sat7hak8dak6c9732]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  1♣

 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

[mcphee]

Fred makes a great point to help define what you want partner to do with the 18-19 hands, pass or bid after the weak raise. For me if dear old pard bids again they are on their own. If I elect to pre-empt I do not have much. I would try 3N with Jillybeans hand in HOPE it makes, K5th C gives me a shot even on a S lead if S are 4-4 or we may even not get a S lead.

[Winstonm]

Thanks for the replies. Ive been asked to post the full hands painful as it is, here they are;

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s652hq53d93caqt85&s=sat7hak8dak6c9732]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  1♣

 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

Not meant to be a personal critisim of either player, but it appears to me both players misjudged their hand strength. The 3C bid appears too strong for most other posters and myself, while the pass (to me) seems too timid with the known 9+ card club fit. Opener's hand evaluates up (IMO) to 20-21 in light of the good club fit. All it really takes is 4 club tricks out of the 9-card fit to make 3N most likely.

[foo]

Opener's hand evaluates up (IMO) to 20-21 in light of the good club fit. All it really takes is 4 club tricks out of the 9-card fit to make 3N most likely.

...With the OP Dummy.

 

What if the 3C raise had been on something like

x_Qxx_xxxx_KJxxx ?

 

That hand is far more typical of a Preemptive 3C raise than the OP one is.