han Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 AK109xxQxxKQxx 1S - 2H (GF)2S - 2NT3C - 3NT?? Agree with the auction to date? Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 AK109xxQxxKQxx 1S - 2H (GF)2S - 2NT3C - ?? Agree with the auction to date? Now what? i am guessing a bid is missing, or you have shown us opener's hand by mistake. I do like my 2h psyche however.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Whoops, thanks Ben, I corrected the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥? Yup this shows about 6214 with Hx in hearts and extra values. Why wouldn't you bid that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥? Yup this shows about 6214 with Hx in hearts and extra values. Why wouldn't you bid that? Because AKT9xx_Qx_x_KQxx does not have much if any extra values in this auction? 1S-2H;2S-2N;3C-3N;?? What about your hand have you not yet told? Doesn't responder's sequence sound like a minimum GF w/ 5 H's? Possibly 55 in the Reds? Do you have a trump suit that will play well opposite "x"? Do you really want to ruff with Qx in a possibly 52 fit playing 4H? I pass 3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOL Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥? Yup this shows about 6214 with Hx in hearts and extra values. Why wouldn't you bid that? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥ I am unaccustomed to 2 over 1, but 2nt followed by 3nt sounds like partner is inviting slam. At the very least he is looking for something else than 3NT, and it isn't spades or clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥ I am unaccustomed to 2 over 1, but 2nt followed by 3nt sounds like partner is inviting slam. At the very least he is looking for something else than 3NT, and it isn't spades or clubs. ok ok call me novice...but:1) if 2s shows 6 not random 5 then pass 3nt.2) 2nt and then 3nt seems to show nt..simple 3nt...no slam....3) otoh if 2s very often shows 5....I do not know but guess 4h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥ I am unaccustomed to 2 over 1, but 2nt followed by 3nt sounds like partner is inviting slam. At the very least he is looking for something else than 3NT, and it isn't spades or clubs. Actually more would play that this is a minimum, and with extra values (16-17) you could jump to 3N in the round before.Partner had plenty of room to show doubt about strain over 3♣ but he didn't, he could very well have a minimal 1543 hand. I would pass 3N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_KARLUK Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Pass to 3N. I expect 1-5-4-3 (i.e. x- AJxxx- AQxx- Jxx) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Actually more would play that this is a minimum, and with extra values (16-17) you could jump to 3N in the round before.Out of curiosity, and for future reference: Is this standard? What do you do with an even stronger hand? 4NT? And what if we are to strong for 4NT? Partner had plenty of room to show doubt about strain over 3♣ but he didn't, he could very well have a minimal 1543 hand. I would pass 3N.If the above is the correct, so would I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 What about your hand have you not yet told?It's at least a king more than a minimum, has excellent shape, has spades that will play for one loser opposite a small singleton, has a better than average heart holding, and may have an unshown sixth spade. Whether that's enough to justify a move depends on what each partner has shown already. Doesn't responder's sequence sound like a minimum GF w/ 5 H's? Possibly 55 in the Reds?Why would he bid 2NT with 5-5 in the reds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 I don't think you can answer this without knowing more about what 2NT showed, in terms both of strength and of shape. This auction isn't much of an advertisement for standard 2/1. Opener could be 6-4, 5-5 or 5-4. I think that's too wide a range of shapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 4♥? Yup this shows about 6214 with Hx in hearts and extra values. Why wouldn't you bid that? If you have extras you should start with 3♣, at least on my style. On the given problem I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 What about your hand have you not yet told?It's at least a king more than a minimum, has excellent shape, has spades that will play for one loser opposite a small singleton, has a better than average heart holding, and may have an unshown sixth spade. Whether that's enough to justify a move depends on what each partner has shown already. Doesn't responder's sequence sound like a minimum GF w/ 5 H's? Possibly 55 in the Reds?Why would he bid 2N with 5-5 in the reds? AKT9xx_Qx_x_KQxx Is a 4 control, IOW "average" controls, albeit shapely 14 count. An average 14 count is "at least a king more than a minimum"? You routinely open all 11 counts? Is not the more usual minimum range for an opening bid in SA or 2/1 GF ~12-14 or 15? When you bid ♠'s 2x, then bid ♣'s, you showed your 64 shape (even if you play a style where 1S-2H;2S could be 5). You have no more shape extras to show. At every opportunity, Responder has been saying "I have a minimum 2/1 GF and I am not excited about your suits". If they had even 2 ♠'s, you would have gotten a raise rather than 3N. With 4+C and extras, they would have raised ♣'s rather than bid 3N. If they had 6+H, they would have rebid them. Instead, they are bidding NT at every opportunity to throw cold water on the auction. Your hand is not getting better as this auction progresses. It is getting worse. Responder's most likely shapes are =1543 and =1552. But they chose not to bid their 2nd suit even though they could have done it below 3N: 1S-2H;2S-3D That they bid NT instead implies how little they like their 2nd suit or their hand in general for play in a suit.Responder rates to have a very minimal 2/1 GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Foo! A109xxx Qx x KQxx is a king less and is an opening hand. AK109xx Qx x Qxxx is a king less and is an opening hand. Conclusion: this hand is a king more than a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 AK109xxQxxKQxx 1S - 2H (GF)2S - 2NT3C - 3NT?? Agree with the auction to date? Now what? I have a bit more than I might, but partner passed up the whole 3-level to bid 3N. If he wanted to suggest alternate strains, he could have, but chose not to; he may have had some doubt when he bid 2N, but 3C seems to have cleared things up for him. I pass 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichMor Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 1. Don't agree with the auction so far. The hand is good enought to rebid 3♣; good controls, Spade texture, upgraded Heart Queen. Nothing wrong with 2♠, but 3♣ is a little better. 2. What to do now ? Depends on what pard's sequence means. If a direct 3NT is weaker that a 2NT/3NT two-step, then this hand should bid again. I would continue with 4♥ showing good 2-card Heart support and 6 Spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Foo! AT9xxx Qx x KQxx is a king less and is an opening hand. AKT9xx Qx x Qxxx is a king less and is an opening hand. Conclusion: this hand is a king more than a minimum. These have only 9 working HCP. Not everyone will open them. Neither of these hands is a example of a sound minimum opening bid. They are examples of aggressive openings being made at least in part on the basis of their shape and not their values. If we count every HCP and use long suit adjustments, either hand is still only worth 13 points. If we discount the potentially wasted Q, that value goes down to 11 points. The original hand is a hand everyone would open regardless of style. It is therefore a good example of an opening bid. But by the same logic, a minimum opening. In addition, this auction has devalued opener's hand to some degree. Whatever extras you may think you started with apriori, they do not rate to exist given the context of this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 1. Don't agree with the auction so far. The hand is good enought to rebid 3♣; good controls, Spade texture, upgraded Heart Queen. Nothing wrong with 2♠, but 3♣ is a little better. ...and how will you bid AKT9xx_Qx_x_AKxx ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) When you bid ♠'s 2x, then bid ♣'s, you showed your 64 shape (even if you play a style where 1S-2H;2S could be 5)....Responder's most likely shapes are =1543 and =1552. So with 5242/5143 opposite 1552, Foo playing with Foo plays in 3NT without even mentioning the diamond suit? [Regarding Han's 11-point examples] If we count every HCP and use long suit adjustments, either hand is still only worth 13 points. If we discount the potentially wasted Q, that value goes down to 11 points.Supposing that we accept this evaluation, once partner bids 2♥ are we allowed to treat ♥Q as worth a full 2 points? If so, in the auction given Han's 11-point examples would be worth 13. Therefore the originally posted hand is worth a king more than a 13-count. Edited December 23, 2008 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 When you bid ♠'s 2x, then bid ♣'s, you showed your 64 shape (even if you play a style where 1S-2H;2S could be 5)....Responder's most likely shapes are =1543 and =1552. So with 2542/1543 opposite 1552, Foo playing with Foo plays in 3N without even mentioning the diamond suit? Foo playing with Foo thinks this auction is nigh unto impossible because in his style of 2/1 GF, We bid as much of Our shape out as can possibly be done below 3N So 1S-2H;2S-2N starts off looking like =2533 or 25(42) better suited for NTNot a shapely 5431 or 5521. But when the auction continues ...;3C-3N Something Smells because with xx or better in ♠'s, responder should have raised ♠'s instead of bidding 3N. Nor did Responder introduce a m or raise ♣'s at any point. Where are the ♦'s? The implication is that Responder has a =15(43) with a crappy ♦ suit or a hand not strong enough to raise 3C... ...and therefore a minimum 2/1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Responder had something like J AKxxx AJx 98xx. Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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