Skill level description

[matmat]

how many times can i take the test?

I think you could pass in three tries.

 

Some of the questions are a little harder.

 

say i fail three times. i then sign up under the very original matmat2009 username. how many times can i take the test now?

[RichMor]

how many times can i take the test?

I think you could pass in three tries.

 

Some of the questions are a little harder.

 

say i fail three times. i then sign up under the very original matmat2009 username. how many times can i take the test now?

You can take the test as many times as you want.

[matmat]

You can take the test as many times as you want.

so what's the point of the test?

[Jacki]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt. Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki B)

[jillybean]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki B)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

[qwery_hi]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki :)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

Unfortunately, without playing in real life, we cannot even become Sectional Master (50+ 5 silver)

[dcvetkov]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki :)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

Unfortunately, without playing in real life, we cannot even become Sectional Master (50+ 5 silver)

This true.

 

Probably I should even start on ACBL masterpoint. I think Paul Soloway, the top holder, once said it is MPs are attendance record, not measure of player skills and ability

 

There are quite a few players, I have seen LM, with 3000 MP or so, who play at Int/ Advanced level I believe at best, and quite a few players, outside of ACBL world who have few if any master points, but their play is masterfull. Specially true for players from lets say South America, or places like Bulgaria in Eastern Europe ( very strong and talented nation for bridge, by the way:), as you probably may have noticed.

 

 

Oh no, I opened another can of worms;)

[jillybean]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki :)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

Unfortunately, without playing in real life, we cannot even become Sectional Master (50+ 5 silver)

This true.

 

Probably I should even start on ACBL masterpoint. I think Paul Soloway, the top holder, once said it is MPs are attendance record, not measure of player skills and ability

 

There are quite a few players, I have seen LM, with 3000 MP or so, who play at Int/ Advanced level I believe at best, and quite a few players, outside of ACBL world who have few if any master points, but their play is masterfull. Specially true for players from lets say South America, or places like Bulgaria in Eastern Europe ( very strong and talented nation for bridge, by the way:), as you probably may have noticed.

 

 

Oh no, I opened another can of worms;)

The guidelines say nothing about ACBL masterpoints;

 

Private

This indicates you do not wish a skill level to be displayed when people view your profile information.

 

Novice

Someone who has recently learned to play bridge.

 

Beginner

Someone who has played bridge for less than one year.

 

Intermediate

Someone who is comparable in skill to most other members of Bridge Base Online.

 

Advanced

Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments.

 

Expert

Someone who has enjoyed success in major national tournaments.

 

World Class

Someone who has represented their country in World Championships.

[qwery_hi]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki :)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

Unfortunately, without playing in real life, we cannot even become Sectional Master (50+ 5 silver)

This true.

 

Probably I should even start on ACBL masterpoint. I think Paul Soloway, the top holder, once said it is MPs are attendance record, not measure of player skills and ability

 

There are quite a few players, I have seen LM, with 3000 MP or so, who play at Int/ Advanced level I believe at best, and quite a few players, outside of ACBL world who have few if any master points, but their play is masterfull. Specially true for players from lets say South America, or places like Bulgaria in Eastern Europe ( very strong and talented nation for bridge, by the way:), as you probably may have noticed.

 

 

Oh no, I opened another can of worms;)

The guidelines say nothing about ACBL masterpoints;

 

Private

This indicates you do not wish a skill level to be displayed when people view your profile information.

 

Novice

Someone who has recently learned to play bridge.

 

Beginner

Someone who has played bridge for less than one year.

 

Intermediate

Someone who is comparable in skill to most other members of Bridge Base Online.

 

Advanced

Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments.

 

Expert

Someone who has enjoyed success in major national tournaments.

 

World Class

Someone who has represented their country in World Championships.

You are right. I guess those who chose these guidelines were thinking like the ACBL, which does not treat real and virtual tournaments the same.

[Finch]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki :)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

At least at the moment, I don't believe there are any open online tournaments in which success could be considered comparable to doing well in a 'major national tournament'. Certainly there are very strong team matches played online, but tend to be by invitation, so it's unlikely that you can become an expert only by playing in them.

 

And why can you not become 'advanced' by consistently doing well in online club tournaments?

[qwery_hi]

The newly published news item might help

 

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=69

 

At least, it probably can't hurt.  Thanks for the suggestion everyone.

 

Jacki :)

Great idea, like you say it cant hurt :)

 

As it stands, only those players who play 'live' can progress beyond the level of intermediate. It would be nice to see similar guidelines for online players.

At least at the moment, I don't believe there are any open online tournaments in which success could be considered comparable to doing well in a 'major national tournament'. Certainly there are very strong team matches played online, but tend to be by invitation, so it's unlikely that you can become an expert only by playing in them.

 

And why can you not become 'advanced' by consistently doing well in online club tournaments?

I wonder if we can have an ACBL BBO sectional (regional?) similar to the ACBL club games?

[jillybean]

And why can you not become 'advanced' by consistently doing well in online club tournaments?

Im not sure what you mean by online club tournaments, do you mean the ACBL tournaments?

[uday]

Based on usernames who logged in in December at least 10 times, who were neither hosts nor stars, we have

 

 

Private 18%

Novice 3%

Beg 6%

Int 28%

Adv 29%

Exp 15%

Worldclass 1%

 

 

 

uday

[dlbalt]

Some of the problems involved in getting users to use accurate skill descriptions:

 

1) Some players only play online. Using terms like "club" and "tournament" is loaded with problems. The only tournaments I play in are at BBO.

 

2) Ratings are inflated on BBO, and won't be undone.

 

Many of the self-described experts simply don't care that they don't qualify as experts. Since the "expert" tag is diluted on BBO, all the ratings below it are also diluted.

 

A player like myself who might call himself either Intermediate or Advanced pretty much has to use the Advanced tag. I can count out a hand most of the time, manage a squeeze or an endplay on many occasions, and I defend reasonably well. If people who call themselves "expert" cannot do those things, shouldn't I call myself "Advanced"? If I call myself "Intermediate", how did I end up in the same rating as players who can't count to 13?

 

3) The US bridge club system, with ACBL masterpoints, has resisted a real rating system for some time. Compare it to competitive chess, where players' ratings go down as well as up; a rating is a reasonably accurate assessment of skill in the chess world.

 

In bridge, in the US at least, a player never loses a masterpoint. As a result, there is no general experience with honest rankings, short of the world level. You have no idea how good (or bad) a player is until you've played a dozen boards with them as partner or opponent.

 

If bridge players were required to earn their ratings, as chess players do (even at the beginner level), they would find it much harder to call themselves experts when they are not.

[bill1157]

Private

This indicates you do not wish a skill level to be displayed when people view your profile information.

 

Novice

Someone who has recently learned to play bridge.

 

Beginner

Someone who has played bridge for less than one year.

 

Intermediate

Someone who is comparable in skill to most other members of Bridge Base Online.

 

Advanced

Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments.

 

Expert

Someone who has enjoyed success in major national tournaments.

 

World Class

Someone who has represented their country in World Championships.

Actually, if the self rating took on more of the way a person plays bridge rather than the "achievements" it might be a better indicator. i.e. it is less important how long a person has played than how much: 1 year 24 hands per day is much better than 5 years once a week etc.

As an example i might rate advanced as: I regularly count the hand as it is played and can draw inferences about location of important cards.

 

intermediate: Playing live bridge, if i had pulled out accidentally 9 cards instead of 13, i would notice my error before trick 9. etc.

 

Bill

[jillybean]

My New Years Resolution is to not get involved with Forum discussions regarding self-rating. No comment. :)

[bill1157]

My New Years Resolution is to not get involved with Forum discussions regarding self-rating. No comment. ;)

and yet you comment...

[neilkaz]

OK I can't resist and will toss my 2 cents in here.

 

LOL at those who list themselves as World Class and don't list their name !! In my real game, which is backgammon, basically those considered to be in the top 50 to 100 in the world are considered to be World Class. Bridge has more participants, but seriously no more than the top 500 (likely too many) should be called World Class. If I was World Class at our wonderful card game, I'd proudly show my name in my profile and I'd also be able to pick up quite a few extra $$$$$ giving lessons and as a paid PD in typical events.

 

LOL at certain countries, where almost everyone who says they are advanced can't come close to counting to 13 during the play and has less bidding judgement than my cat who is almost always here on my desk as I play on BBO.

 

LOL at tonite's exPD. The table said Adv+.. she didn't realize to try for slam holding 20 HCP after opening 1♥ (routine 2NT opener 5332 and weakish major)and hearing me call 4♦ over the opp's 3♦ WJO. She choose a line that was 100% -1 rather than a 100% play to set up a side suit for discards and claim. Later she chucked an OT or two with similar stupidity. (the cat takes 11 for sure,,maybe 12 tricks if the opps missplay)

 

When do I call myself and expert ? It will be when I can sit at a table with 3 other random experts and almost certainly be better than two of them. I'm not quite there yet, but hope to be by next year.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[sireenb]

I'm always amused by the star novices.    :)

Some stars are novices. All stars presumably represented their countries at World Championships at some time or other but that does not necessarily make them World Class.

 

Star playing history and achievements and WBF ranking (if ranked) can be checked at the WBF web site http://www.worldbridge.org/people

 

If a player represented his/her country once or twice at a Junior event then he/she may well be a novice and should rank accordingly. World class should be for the top stars and the rest should use the rankings in between.

 

Sireen

[jdeegan]

:) I think the management might consider promoting a functional description of a person's playing ability when describing what should constitute a particular skill level. For example, it seems ridiculous for someone to describe him/herself as an expert bridge player if he/she cannot:

 

1. count a bridge hand whenever necessary

2. recognize and execute a simple squeeze at the table whenever they arise (most of the time).

3. endplay somebody every so often

 

I have noticed that some players who cannot even begin do these things advertise themselves as experts and as SLM's and GLM's as if that is some kind of big deal. What do these initials stand for? Should I avoid such people as partners? Are any of them any good, or are they ALL terrible players?

 

Most genuine experts who play in BBO tournament indies and with pickup partners in pair games tourneys average over +0.50 IMPs per board and over 55% at MP's playing against the field. O. Jacoby, a well-known local player in years past, claimed his average in MP tournament pairs events was 60%. Of course, in real expert versus real expert contests all bets are off - the better of the experts win, but the losers may be very, very good players, indeed.

 

Might we say that anyone whose IMPs per board in BBO tournaments is negative, and stays negative over a long period of time over may hands should avoid advertising themselves as BBO Experts? I give you as an example, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX whose record over the past month (667 hands) has averaged a -0.45 IMPs per board.

 

[REMAINDER DELETED. PLEASE NOTE, BBO forum policy does not allow poking fun of players by name. Repeated episoldes can lead to sanctions. - inquiry]

Edited January 13, 2009 by inquiry

[qwery_hi]

:( I think the management might consider promoting a functional description of a person's playing ability when describing what should constitute a particular skill level.  For example, it seems ridiculous for someone to describe him/herself as an expert bridge player if he/she cannot:

 

1. count a bridge hand whenever necessary

2. recognize and execute a simple squeeze at the table whenever they arise (most of the time).

3. endplay somebody every so often

 

I have noticed that some players who cannot even begin do these things advertise themselves as experts and as SLM's and GLM's as if that is some kind of big deal.  What do these initials stand for?  Should I avoid such people as partners?  Are any of them any good, or are they ALL terrible players?

 

Most genuine experts who play in BBO tournament indies and with pickup partners in pair games tourneys average over +0.50 IMPs per board and over 55% at MP's playing against the field.  O. Jacoby, a well-known local player in years past, claimed his average in MP tournament pairs events was 60%.  Of course, in real expert versus real expert contests all bets are off - the better of the experts win, but the losers may be very, very good players, indeed.

 

(paragraph removed by inquiry)

I don't know why some people assume that finding a good online partner is magically easier than finding a good offline partner. I'm not even talking about expert partners, just finding a polite partner who wants to enjoy the game for the game's sake and leaves his ego at the door is good enough.

 

When you sit down to play with a stranger online, all best are initially off. He may be an expert, he may not, he may be polite, he may not, etc etc. The difficult lesson all onliners have to learn at some point (whether it's playing bridge or anything else online) is that you have to put in as much hard work into an online partnership as you do in a offline partnership. And the very first step of this hard work is weeding out the people you are uncomfortable playing with. Once this basic fact of online interactions sans recommendation systems is recognized, the modus operandi of playing with a stranger online is simple -

 

1. Start playing with no assumptions.

2. If you're uncomfortable for any reason, tag then for future reference, and stop playing.

3. If, luckily you do enjoy playing with them, work on the relationship. Be a good partner yourself. And this means being supportive, non critical, and trying to make the game fun and enjoyable for everyone.

 

Build up a circle of friends over time. Step out of your comfort zone. I suspect that a lot of people who complain that experts on BBO are not expert won't even consider playing with an intermediate on BBO. Give it a shot. You may be pleasantly surprised. And even if you're not, you have more FUN than playing with an "expert" in a worry-free and good-humored environment.

 

Whining about "experts" on the forums may be good for venting your frustrations but not for much else. Consider how you can change the way you approach playing online on BBO and perhaps you'll have more enjoyable experiences than negative ones.

 

Asking the management to do something about a non-existent problem is a no-gainer for everyone.

 

EDIT - If you are an expert, let Fred's principle of 'giving back to the game that gave you so much' guide you. Partner advanced/intermediates sometimes and help them improve. You'll enjoy it. Trying to get expert partners and opponents every time you sit down to play in a pickup game is unrealistic; it won't magically happen, you'll have to put in lot of work before it does.

[jdeegan]

I don't know why some people assume that finding a good online partner is magically easier than finding a good offline partner.

:( Big difference between being an expert player who plays maybe 200-300 hands per month on BBO and an average player who plays 1500-2000 hands per month. I do have five or six regular partners on BBO, but the odds of them being online and available when I am are small. I have to fit my BBO into a fairly busy, but irregular schedule.

 

The main problem with finding good partners on BBO is that there is no easy way to network. In real life, I can get useful, screened contacts from third and fourth party references. On BBO I usually have to find a player blind, then find that they can play, convince them that I can play, and finally determine if our games and personalities are compatible.

 

Still, I love BBO. Just playing a few hands per month in indies, robot races and money bridge keeps my game in shape. When I do get a chance to play in a nearby ACBL tournament with a good partner, it's a piece of cake - except that my bidding system has to remain rather basic - not much of a problem except up against a team of REAL experts where my chances are below (maybe well below) 50-50 in any case.

[Aberlour10]

I have often wondered how many players believe they are in the top 100 players in the world.  Well not often, but I have wondered it before.  Any guesses?

tja believing..., only the facts count. I dont think, the player from the real top 100 care too much about their place in ranking like...24th...33rd or 67th in absolut points.

As professionals,maybe a bit more...about unwritten, unpublished income ranking like: who earns 20.000$ + expenses per Nationals..who..15.000....10.000...5.000 etc,etc.

Its all private, so we will never find out about it

 

Robert

[PeterGill]

For those who have been wondering who the top 50 World Class players

in the world really are, page 16 of

http://www.worldbridge.org/publications/WBNews/WBFnews08.pdf

is a pretty good guide, especially for the top 13 players in the world.

A new annual update is due soon.

 

There's a bit more information at

http://www.wbfmasterpoints.com/

but since it uses only results in World Bridge Federation events,

it's only a very rough guide, once you get below the top 50 in the world.

 

Peter Gill

[Rossoneri]

Some stars are novices. All stars presumably represented their countries at World Championships at some time or other but that does not necessarily make them World Class.

 

Star playing history and achievements and WBF ranking (if ranked) can be checked at the WBF web site http://www.worldbridge.org/people

 

If a player represented his/her country once or twice at a Junior event then he/she may well be a novice and should rank accordingly. World class should be for the top stars and the rest should use the rankings in between.

 

Sireen

I can't quite make out if this is serious or sarcastic.

 

jdeegan: Not a good idea to mention certain characters...you might get a scolding/warning for being bad to him lol :)