y66 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I don't play enough to justify the complexity. Of possible interest: Danny Kleinman's two cents on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 ....I'd rather miss the 5-3 fit to increase the volatility of the session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 ....I'd rather miss the 5-3 fit to increase the volatility of the session Just add a fert or two to your arsenal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 ... none of my partners are willing to learn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32519 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 ... I play the obviously superior 3♣ as Muppet or Batchelder Puppet. :rolleyes: Kindly explain these two methods to me as I am not familiar with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32519 Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 ... I play Stuppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 I play a weak no trump and need my garbage stayman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanoff Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 1.To check for 5M does not require much space so logical to use 3♣ for this. You won't be giving any more info away than using 2♣.2.Space is required to show the 'n' types of hand behind a 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♠ relay.3.Playing weak nt I'll keep 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ as garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Kindly explain these two methods to me as I am not familiar with them. Muppet is simple. You play regular old Puppet, but you shoft the meanings of 3♥ and 3NT, such that 3NT shows five hearts and 3♥ denies a 4-card or longer minor. That way, Responder with 5♠/4♥ has a solution -- he bids 3♣ "Puppet" and then if Opener bidfs 3♥ (no 5-card or 4-card major) bids 3♠ to show a fifth spade. "Batchelder" is a different name for a system that already existed. 3♣ asks for major length. With 4-4, Opener bids 3NT (and then re-0transfers on). With 5 spades, he bids 3♠. With 4-5 hearts, he bids 3♥, with Responder bidding 3♠ to ask if 5. With 2-4 spades and 2-3 hearts, Opener rebids 3♦; 3♥ then asks for spade length (3♠ with 3, 3NT with 2, or any other with 4); 3♠ instead asks for heart length (3NT with 2, other with 3). Two problem hands are 5H/4S, but with that transfer and bid 3♠. Other is 5♠, 3♥, with which you transfer to spades, expecting Opener to "coirrect" to 3NT if 2♠/5♥. That approach allows ANY major fit to be found, even if Responder is 3-5 or 5-3 in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 because i DO have a rebid with 16-17 with a 5xM bal hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Muppet is simple. You play regular old Puppet, but you shoft the meanings of 3♥ and 3NT, such that 3NT shows five hearts and 3♥ denies a 4-card or longer minor. That way, Responder with 5♠/4♥ has a solution -- he bids 3♣ "Puppet" and then if Opener bidfs 3♥ (no 5-card or 4-card major) bids 3♠ to show a fifth spade. Shouldn't you invert the 3♠/3nt meanings over 2nt-3♣-3♥. I'd think 3♠ should mean bid 3nt and 3nt should show 5♠. And 2nt-3nt shows 5♥-4♠ so now you have nearly all your major suit contracts found and right sided (I guess you still miss 5-3 spade fits when opener has 5 hearts and responder only 2). At the cost of memory and artificial bids to be X or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes, many do that. Issue if slammish can be resolved better if Nat., tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Shouldn't you invert the 3♠/3nt meanings over 2nt-3♣-3♥. I'd think 3♠ should mean bid 3nt and 3nt should show 5♠. And 2nt-3nt shows 5♥-4♠ so now you have nearly all your major suit contracts found and right sided (I guess you still miss 5-3 spade fits when opener has 5 hearts and responder only 2). Why is responder doing puppet/muppet/whatever with 52xy? Why not just transfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
advanced Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 ... I play Heeman.one of the very few in the world :) I have thought about adding it to my sys, but never did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 ...because I do not know any better. This applies to none of my partners fortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
advanced Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 because 5 cards major don't belong in 1NT, they are opened 1Mbecause weak hands opposite 1NT are much more frequentbecause 2C Stayman is also used with weak hands and 4/4M 4/5M 5/5M 3451 3460 and 4S/5+mbecause 3C shows 1345 or 3145 GF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 because 5 cards major don't belong in 1NT, they are opened 1MWhen you start out with that dogma, it tends to make some of us ignore the rest of the post, which probably has some good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 When you start out with that dogma, it tends to make some of us ignore the rest of the post, which probably has some good points. not really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I do play Puppet over 1NT because you can include it without losing very much and taking 5M332 hands out of a 1M opening is useful. What is more, I also play 2♣ as Puppet after 1♣ - 1♦; 1NT (15-17) and 1♣ - 1♦; 1♥ - 1♠; 1NT (18-20), where all of the bids before 1NT are artificial. Nice necro - 32519 can add this to his Puppet Stayman thread list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 When you start out with that dogma, it tends to make some of us ignore the rest of the post, which probably has some good points. not reallyGood, then I am glad I didn't read the rest :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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