2220, or

[Hanoi5]

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=stxxhxdakqjxxxcqx&s=sak8hak9dtxxcajtx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

We were playing against these two ladies and on the first board my partner botched a hand and so I said to myself, 'let's take it back'. I opened second hand with South 19-count with a 'tactic' 2NT and my pd and me eventually got to 7NT. I had a club lead which meant 13 easy tricks (13 not 14, if you catch my meaning) but on a diamond lead (which someone else got), how would you play?

[Benoit35]

If LHO has ♠QJ and ♣K (you do rely on helpful kibitzers don't you?), squeeze him. Make sure to take your 11th trick in dummy, holding ♠10 and ♣x as your last two cards opposite ♣AJ. West only gets to keep two of ♠Q-♣Kx. If the ten of spades still isn't good then, you still have the option of finessing if the opponents' discards suggest an onside ♣K.

[Fluffy]

Appart from LHO having singleton ♣K+ major singleton (count squeeze) I see no better way to make 13 tricks than club finese.

[Benoit35]

Let me hastily add that I agree - The squeeze I described requires three cards to be together in the same hand, whereas the finesse only requires one onside. So my vote goes for a "fake squeeze" - unless both the ♠Q and ♠J drop, or the defense shows me 6 club cards, by the time I cash trick 11, I'm playing low to the jack of clubs.

[ArtK78]

Seems fairly simple.

 

Win the diamond, cash the AK of both majors and run the diamonds. If either player has 5 of either major and the ♣K, or 5 of both majors, or QJ QJT in the majors, or QJ of spades and the ♣K, or QJT of hearts and the ♣K, they will be squeezed.

 

If nothing develops on the run of the diamonds, take the club finesse.

[Fluffy]

You should think more carefully Ark, most of the squeezes you point out do not work (heart- club against west or majors squeeze) while others require a guess in the end, so they are not much of an improvement.

[Fluffy]

EXTRA CHANCE: If LHO has 1 or no spades, vacant spaces say LHO is more likelly to have ♣K.

 

At this point the best line is a double squeeze with hearts as common menace (or simple if RHO happens to have a major 2 suiter), advance ♣A before running diamonds

 

♠10

♥x

♦

♣Q

 

♠

♥AK8

♦

♣

[ArtK78]

You should think more carefully Ark, most of the squeezes you point out do not work (heart- club against west or majors squeeze) while others require a guess in the end, so they are not much of an improvement.

It is true that some of the squeezes that I mentioned will not work against LHO due to positional factors. And it is also true that if either opponent shows out on the second round of spades, you can play for the double squeeze in the manner you suggest. It is still right to cash the AK of spades at tricks 2 and 3. In all likelihood, nothing remarkable will happen. In that case, I still think it is right to cash the AK of hearts (pitching the ♣Q from dummy) and then run the diamonds. The heart menace will operate only against RHO in the case of a major suit squeeze or a club/heart show-up squeeze, but it will operate against LHO in the case that he has all three guards, for example:

 

QJxx

QJTx

xxx

Kx

 

Unfortunately, even the triple squeeze forces you to guess whether the squeeze occurred or not against LHO. At trick 10, after declarer has cashed the AK of spades, AK of hearts and 6 rounds of diamonds, LHO has to pitch from:

 

Q

Q

---

Kx

 

He must pitch a club, otherwise declarer can claim. But on the last diamond (trick 11), declarer has to pitch from:

 

T

---

---

x

 

 

---

9

---

AJ

 

The squeeze worked on the previous trick, but declarer may not be able to tell that it worked.

 

Unless someone shows out on the second round of spades, I think it is still right to play the hand as I mentioned above, and then decide whether to finesse the club at trick 12 or play for the drop.

 

Playing the hand this way is clearly an improvement over relying solely on the club finesse. There will be no guess involved if RHO is squeezed. And it gives you options if you think LHO has been successfully squeezed. You can always fall back on the club finesse.

[bid_em_up]

Cash the AK♠ and the A♣ (vienna coup), Run the diamonds.

 

As long as the ♣ & ♠ guards are in opposite hands (doesnt matter who holds which one), neither hand will be able to retain 3 hearts in tbe end position.

[han]

Agree with Art. Bid-em-up's line seems less than 50%. Cashing the hearts and spades lets you fall back on the finesse if nothing works, but iif you read it well you may choose to go for a squeeze.

[Benoit35]

There are 8 possibilities for the positions of the three spade & club guards, of roughly equal probability:

1) W ♠QJ-♣K vs. E none

2) W Q-K vs E J-

3) W J-K vs E Q-

4) W -K vs E QJ-

5) W QJ- vs E -K

6) W Q- vs E J-K

7) W J- vs E Q-K

8) W none vs E QJ-K

 

The above-described "Vienna coup" only works in cases 4 and 5 (in the other cases one defender can guard both black suits while the other holds on to the hearts), and furthermore loses the ability to fall back on the club finesse.

 

The simple club finesse beats cases 5 through 8... Any improvement I think has to rely on an error by the defenders (such as East exposing case #1 by discarding all his clubs, or West not realising that he can afford to pitch his spade guard in cases 2 and 3).

[ArtK78]

There are 8 possibilities for the positions of the three spade & club guards, of roughly equal probability:

1) W ♠QJ-♣K vs. E none

2) W Q-K vs E J-

3) W J-K vs E Q-

4) W -K vs E QJ-

5) W QJ- vs E -K

6) W Q- vs E J-K

7) W J- vs E Q-K

8) W none vs E QJ-K

 

The above-described "Vienna coup" only works in cases 4 and 5 (in the other cases one defender can guard both black suits while the other holds on to the hearts), and furthermore loses the ability to fall back on the club finesse.

 

The simple club finesse beats cases 5 through 8... Any improvement I think has to rely on an error by the defenders (such as East exposing case #1 by discarding all his clubs, or West not realising that he can afford to pitch his spade guard in cases 2 and 3).

What about the heart guards?

[Benoit35]

Right!

 

There's about a one in 8 chance that a given defender has ♥QJT (ignoring freak things like a 7-2 split) - how does that affect the odds?

 

With the double squeeze line, I see a 1/8 chance added in cases 1, 2 and 3 if West has the three heart guards, and the same on the other side in cases 6, 7, 8. For a total of 1/8 * 3/4 + 1/4 = still way less than 50%. Bottom line is this - too many heart and spade guards to be a real help. If we held AKJ things would be different because only one defender would be able to guard the suit, as opposed to this where odds are that both of them can, and choose whether to do so or protect the black suits. There are too many ways in which defenders can share the guarding.

 

So I maintain that we should cash ♥AK and keep the finesse option (as Art suggested). With that line, I don't see how cases 1 through 4 can be improved by the hearts if the opponents play well... but it does increase their chance of an error! For example, if West holds all the heart guards, he has to discard them last so we can't know to pitch the ♣J instead of the ♥9, and this means he has to expose the ♣K early, so East has to be extra careful not to reveal things... But here's the thing: If West has bare the ♣K to hold on to a heart, then East can afford to keep a small club to hide that fact - we can't know that the squeeze worked. Otherwise, if East has at least one heart guard, he has room to keep it.

[bid_em_up]

deleted

[maggieb]

There are 8 possibilities for the positions of the three spade & club guards, of roughly equal probability:

1) W ♠QJ-♣K vs. E none

2) W Q-K vs E J-

3) W J-K vs E Q-

4) W -K vs E QJ-

5) W QJ- vs E -K

6) W Q- vs E J-K

7) W J- vs E Q-K

8) W none vs E QJ-K

 

The above-described "Vienna coup" only works in cases 4 and 5 (in the other cases one defender can guard both black suits while the other holds on to the hearts), and furthermore loses the ability to fall back on the club finesse.

 

The simple club finesse beats cases 5 through 8... Any improvement I think has to rely on an error by the defenders (such as East exposing case #1 by discarding all his clubs, or West not realising that he can afford to pitch his spade guard in cases 2 and 3).

Really? Do you make this stuff up?

 

In this four card ending:

 

[hv=n=s10hxdxcq&s=sxhak9dc]133|200|[/hv]

or

[hv=n=s10hxdxcq&s=sxhak9dc]133|200|[/hv]

The last diamond is played from dummy. South pitches his last black card.

 

Now, tell me how either hand can retain 3 hearts and a black suit high card when coming down to 3 cards?

 

One hand (it doesn't matter if it is East or West) is forced to keep the club K, and therefore can only retain 2 hearts. This hand will have already been forced to discard any high spade that it held originally.

 

The other hand will be forced to keep the only remaining high spade. Therefore in the 3 card ending, it will only be able to retain 2 hearts as well.

 

The last heart in hand will be good.

 

The Vienna coup wins in 6 out of your eight cases, losing only to case 1 or 8, when one hand holds both black suits.

 

I'll stick with my line, tyvm.

LOL!!!

 

(did I do it right? B))

[han]

Please explain bid_em_up. It seems to me it only works when one both players have a suit to guard. If one player can guard both black suits (so when the person with the club king has either the spade jack or the spade queen) then the other only has to keep hearts and there is no squeeze. I think.

[bid_em_up]

Probably, I shouldnt post at 1 am.

[H_KARLUK]

Agree with Art. Bid-em-up's line seems less than 50%. Cashing the hearts and spades lets you fall back on the finesse if nothing works, but iif you read it well you may choose to go for a squeeze.

Good points Ark and Han. Agreed.

[Benoit35]

The Vienna coup wins in 6 out of your eight cases, losing only to case 1 or 8, when one hand holds both black suits.

One hand can hold both black suits in all but cases 4 and 5 - Han is right.

[Hanoi5]

I usually find these problems amusing for the finesse gives you 50% chance of making the hand while the squeeze is probably less. In this case you can also try for both things (squeeze and finesse) but then this position cannot be achieved:

 

♠10

♥x

♦x

♣Q

 

♠

♥AK9

♦

♣x

 

Instead achieving this one:

 

 

♠10

♥

♦x

♣x

 

♠

♥9

♦

♣AJ

 

And they are not always compatible. Truth is that RHO held:

 

♠QJ9x

♥J8xxxx

♦x

♣xx

 

So bid_em_up is right here.

[ArtK78]

Deleted.

[Benoit35]

So bid_em_up is right here.

You mean lucky, which is better than being right. :rolleyes: