Not-great agreements

[jdonn]

I don't usually ask questions like this, but since it came up and I'm curious what others think...

 

AKQxxx AQx AKx x, mps, you are dealer, just your side bidding.

 

2♣ 2♦

2♠ 3♦

?

 

You aren't a frequent partnership and have to make due with the following relevant agreements and assumptions:

 

- 2♦ was game forcing (you play the 2♥ bad hand response).

- You play 1430, and feel safe that if you choose to bid 4NT now partner would interpret it as keycard for diamonds.

- You are confident that after a keycard response, the cheapest non-trump suit bid would be a trump queen ask. Partner would bid 6 of the trump suit without it (5 if available), his cheapest king or 5NT with it.

- You play specific kings after keycard, which would always be a 5NT ask. Partner is aware 5NT would promise all the keycards.

- Except for the trump queen ask and 5NT, none of the other non-trump suit bids are discussed and you feel it would be risky to make any of them under the circumstances. If you, for example, at some point bid keycard for spades then bid 6♦ though, you suspect partner will believe you are trying to play there.

 

Given that set of agreements and assumptions, what is your matchpoint strategy on this hand? Rebid spades so you don't miss them? And if so, later either take a chance on the diamond queen or give up on a grand? Move forward in diamonds now? And if so, potentially make some later attempt to get back to spades? Any other ideas?

 

I am not at all interested in other gadgets or methods that would come in handy, but feel free to say what factors would influence your decision to the question asked, such as size or strength of field. (It actually occured in what I would call a slightly below average club game, whatever that is to you. I feel like my idea of "average" for a club game is weaker than most others might believe, if that matters.)

[Winstonm]

I think the best idea is to be straightforward - I would bid 4D now. In the slam zone, unless it is blindingly obvious that slam is in the cards, I don't worry about major/minor/NT too much.

[CSGibson]

I agree that bidding 4 diamonds or 4N is probably best, but I would be tempted by 3 ♥ to see if partner gives preference back to spades.

[mike777]

Non expert response, 4nt now.

given agreements over:

5c=now 5h

5d=now 6d

[han]

4NT. If partner shows 1 I'll ask for the queen. If partner has it and no king then I'd bid 6S (may make even if we have a trump loser). If partner has the queen and the heart king I'd bid 7NT. If partner has the queen and the club king I'd bid 6NT. If partner doesn't have the queen (nice suit partner!) then I'd bid a desperate 6S.

 

If partner has 0 keycards then I'd bid 6D, seems safest.

[P_Marlowe]

4D.

 

Wait and see.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[han]

4NT. If partner shows 1 I'll ask for the queen. If partner has it and no king then I'd bid 6S (may make even if we have a trump loser). If partner has the queen and the heart king I'd bid 7NT. If partner has the queen and the club king I'd bid 6NT. If partner doesn't have the queen (nice suit partner!) then I'd bid a desperate 6S.

 

If partner has 0 keycards then I'd bid 6D, seems safest.

Thinking about it again I decided I'd bid 7D if partner shows the diamond queen, the club ace but no heart king.

[kfay]

I held a hand almost exactly like this the other day. AKQJxx AKx AKx x... WEIRD!!!

 

 

On that hand a similar situation arose and I decided to agree ♦s in the meantime. I'll do that here: 4NT.

 

Probably I'll try for 6♠, 6NT, or a grand. Need more info.

[han]

Exactly where are you guys getting those hands?

[Hanoi5]

I'd bid 4NT, find out about the queen and depending on the king(s) my pd has I'll bid 6 or 7.

[whereagles]

I'm going with 4NT, followed by 6 or 7♦. Why complicate when you can call all the shots? :)

[Codo]

Exactly where are you guys getting those hands?

My opps do have them frequently too...

 

For this hand: I bid 4 NT. It would be horrible to see pd bidding something above 4 of a Major if I bid 4 Diamond now.

Later I try to give it one more try in spades.

[mikeh]

I bid 4♦, with some reservations.

 

I am basically trying to find out whether he can bid 4♠... if he can't, then we are playing in diamonds at the appropriate level.. if he cues 5♣, we are playing 7 diamonds.

 

If he has a big hand, then 4♦ will allow him to take control.. we may then miss spades or notrump, because neither of us will be able to tell that the spades are probably running opposite xx (he can't risk a non-forcing 4♠ call with a slam-going hand)

 

But the real reservation is about the meaning of 4N if I choose that call over a 4♠ preference, following 4♦. In my serious partnerships, this would be 6 card keycard, and would be perfect given my spade holding. Opposite 2 keycards, I will gamble 7N at mps (never at imps).

 

If I don't have this form of 4N available, I just keycard over 3♦, essentially giving up on spades. The danger of rebidding my spades is that he may raise with a stiff.... x xxx KJxxxx Qxx.. what else is he to bid?

[keylime]

4♦, and my pard should thank me.

[han]

I bid 4♦, with some reservations.

 

I am basically trying to find out whether he can bid 4♠... if he can't, then we are playing in diamonds at the appropriate level.. if he cues 5♣, we are playing 7 diamonds.

4D was also my first impulse but I was worried about hands like these:

 

x xxx Jxxxxx AQx, do we want to be in the grand? Well, if everybody is in slam then I guess we do!

 

x Jxx QJxxxx KQx Shouldn't partner cue 5C with this?

[Fluffy]

Good point han, 4♦ might not let us ask for keycards.

 

Depending on the level of the field, maybe just bidding 7♦ is at least 70% of this hand, so I would forget about playing in spades or NT. On a more serious field you might want to gamble.

[han]

Yeah I think if partner doesn't show kings then you probably get a good score for playing 7D. If you make it.

[jdonn]

I held a hand almost exactly like this the other day.  AKQJxx AKx AKx x... WEIRD!!!

Exactly where are you guys getting those hands?

Screw that question - why was his hand better than mine!

[mikeh]

I bid 4♦, with some reservations.

 

I am basically trying to find out whether he can bid 4♠... if he can't, then we are playing in diamonds at the appropriate level.. if he cues 5♣, we are playing 7 diamonds.

4D was also my first impulse but I was worried about hands like these:

 

x xxx Jxxxxx AQx, do we want to be in the grand? Well, if everybody is in slam then I guess we do!

 

x Jxx QJxxxx KQx Shouldn't partner cue 5C with this?

What I really meant to say was that if he cues clubs, we are playing 7♦ if he has the diamond K (I had come up with examples, then deleted them and forgot to amend the post) assuming that we play graded responses to GSF (I don't think that 5N over 5♣ is choice of slams). But, if we didn't, I still think that the odds are that partner would not be cue-bidding 5♣ with a Jack high trump suit and a misfit for spades, so absent the graded responses, I'd still risk 7♦.

 

BTW, I don't think that he should make the first pure slam move by cue-bidding a second round control at the 5-level.. where we have no room below slam to allow him to clarify the nature of the cue (assuming, as I do NOT usually play, that the recue of clubs clarifies that the initial cue was the King... I am old-fashioned, and while I do cue up the line, I play the second cue as promising absolute (both 1st and 2nd) round control.

 

I also think that responder can appreciate that the 4♦ call showed either a hand on which opener intends to take further action over a signoff or a hand with significant flaws.. if the former, then there is no need to cue.. after all, we have to hold something for our auction, and if the latter, then an ambiguous cue with no bidding room left is too much.. too dangerous.

[han]

I would think that with diamond support, opener would bid 4NT if he thinks he can place the contract later reasonably well, else he bids 4D. So 4D could be bid because opener needs a little extra from responder, or because opener has xx of diamonds, or because opener isn't interested in keycards.

 

While I may be persuaded that responder shouldn't bid 5C on the soft second hand I gave, I disagree that 5C in this auction should promise first round control. What else is responder to do with a hand like x xxx AJ10xxx Kxx, sign off? Bid keycards? 5C says responder has a suitable hand for slam, no heart control and a club control. Requiring an ace leave too many hands unbiddable in my opinion.

 

(To preempt any comments about the ace of diamonds: hopefully it is clear that I realize responder won't hold this hand when we have the hand in the original question.)

[y66]

4D

 

Move forward in diamonds now. Hope pard can bid 4H or 4S.

 

Like this problem a lot.

 

Will save this for future partnership discussion of slam methods, including ... 4D 4S 4N=6KCB and ... 4D 5C=?

[ArtK78]

Seems like 4NT over 3♦ is the practical approach. You will get to 6♦, 7♦ and 6NT or 7NT on most hands where each of these contracts is likely to make. All that you will miss is the occasional 6♠ contract (it is unlikely that 7♠ will make on hands where 7NT does not also make).

 

The only other possibility is that you should be in 4♠ rather than 5♦, but that is a very unlikely possibility (partner holds xx xx JT9xxx KQJ and the diamond Q does not come down).

[HeavyDluxe]

Another non-expert response... But I'd bid 4NT, RKC for ♦s.

 

4♦ is my second choice.

 

I'm opening 2♣ mostly with big one-suiters, right? So, I'd hope responder would suspect a 6 card ♠ suit anyway. Instead resp has pushed ♦s and I have massive, supportive hand. As is noted in previous posts, I'm betting on a possible 7♦ or finding a small or grand slam in NT.

[mtvesuvius]

My original thought was to bid 3♥ hoping for a ♠ correct back, but now this creates horrible problems when partner does not bid 3♠, in addition to the fact that knowing about ♦ is much more important. I bid 4NT. And I agree with Han's analysis of what to do after partner responds to 4NT... In a club game I think 7♦ is now safest, but in most National tournements etc, now there is a decision to be made... (and without fail, I'll always make the wrong one)