Balancing bid

[Free]

Free makes it sound like, because he doesn't "need" a stopper (whatever that means)

If you want to bitch about poor language go to the spelling club. Everyone knows what I mean, so I guess you're just proving your intelligence here...

I don't know what your original post means.

 

Does it mean that just because you have an agreement that this doesn't promise a heart stopper with your favorite partner, that this hand is a nonproblem? Does it mean that if you don't have such an agreement, that this problem is "impossible" to solve?

 

Both of these are complete nonsense, as Han said, so I hope you meant something else!

What I meant was that bidding 1NT doesn't promise a stopper, that's all... Kgr and I are both from Belgium so I know the general 'standard' agreements in our country, which is that you need a stopper. That's why I mentioned it, not for you, not for han, not for any self proclaimed expert, but for kgr.

I never said the rest of the auction will be easy, I never said it will be difficult. But at THIS point however 1NT is no problem at all.

 

I was the only one who choose 2♣, so it seems like I should consider 1NT without a stop.

Looking at kgr's choice it seems that he indeed thought he needed a stopper to bid 1NT.

[han]

Maggieb wrote it better than I could but let me add something else. I think that most of us would generally expect a stopper for 1NT and certainly few of us have a way to check after a 1NT overall (be it balancing or direct) whether we actually have a stopper. Still, almost everybody decides to bid 1NT here, so apparently we see it as the least of eviils (some more strongly than others). Generally I'd say that you will often land on your feet more often after a balancing 1NT without a stopper than after a direct 1NT without a stopper, where partner's potential stoppers will be in front of opener and vulnerable on the lead.

 

Free, I didn't mean to complain about your language use, I really disagreed with how I thought you meant your comment. If you post on a public forum and people disagree with what you write then they are going to comment on that, that's how forums work. In fact I would want people to comment on what I write when they disagree. If you want to write something that only krg should see and react to then you can send him a private message.

[whereagles]

certainly few of us have a way to check after a 1NT overall (be it balancing or direct) whether we actually have a stopper.

Well, it's actually very simple. You don't need any mad scientist agreements: simply play "system on" and use transfers to the opening suit as stopper asks. Example:

 

(1♥) 1NT (pass) 2♦ = obviously, I don't have 5 hearts. The question is rather: "you kidding me with that 1NT or not?"

 

or

 

(1♠) pass (pass) 1NT

(pass) 2♥

 

If the opening is in a minor, you use your system's minor-suit oriented bid:

 

(1♦) pass (pass) 1NT

(pass) 2♠* (pass) 3♣

(pass) 3♦**

 

*transfer to a minor

** suit is, of course, not diamonds. Rather it asks for stop (& probably has some clubs or good 3 card major, in case pard doesn't stop the diamonds).

 

Another example:

 

(1♣) 1NT (pass) 3♣ = usually 5+ clubs, forcing. Here it's just a stop ask.

 

After the cue, opener is free to use mad science if he wishes. Example:

 

(1♠) 1NT (pass) 2♥

(pass) 2♠ = I have 1/2 a stop. Is that enough?

[jdonn]

certainly few of us have a way to check after a 1NT overall (be it balancing or direct) whether we actually have a stopper.

Well, it's actually very simple. You don't need any mad scientist agreements: simply play "system on" and use transfers to the opening suit as stopper asks.

That would certainly work for such a purpose, but most of us don't like system on after a balancing 1NT at all. It doesn't help in narrowing down the very wide range, and 5 card majors become much less common anyway after not having overcalled.

[fred]

I think I would Pass, but I don't feel strongly about it. If you are willing to bid 1NT without a stopper (I am) then it is hard to be too critical of that call. Who I was playing against might well come into play for me here.

 

Being so weak in both majors is a big negative for 1NT in my view because it means there are potentially 2 cold game contracts that the opponents might reach if you balance.

 

That has an impact on how much you have to lose versus how much you have to gain by bidding 1NT.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a simulation "proved" that either Pass or 1NT was the winner. It would surprise me if a simulation made 2C look good. However, it is hard to do an accurate simulation without making some serious assumptions about how the other 3 players will bid with various hands.

 

Keep in mind that if you are playing against strong players these days, it is more likely that East has something than that he has nothing for his Pass of his partner's opening at favorable vulnerability.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Free]

Free, I didn't mean to complain about your language use, I really disagreed with how I thought you meant your comment.

There's a huge difference between disagreeing with something and claiming something is ridiculous just because you "think" the poster in question forgot to type half a paragraph. But whatever...

[whereagles]

That would certainly work for such a purpose, but most of us don't like system on after a balancing 1NT at all. It doesn't help in narrowing down the very wide range, and 5 card majors become much less common anyway after not having overcalled.

After a balancing 1NT, there's less of a need for transfers than after a direct one, yes. But if you play "system on" it becomes very mnemonical.

[Codo]

Han, thanks for your simulation. I apologisze for not using the words you had agreed with, because they had been closer to what I thought then my own words.

 

 

For KGR: The choice really is 1 NT or pass, like Fred said. But this time, even your 2 Club bid had worked great, when your partner after his 4 club call had not gone mad and bid 5 club again. IF he judges his hand strong enough for 5, he should have bid different. But bidding 4 Club and later 5 Club in red/white is begging for a double.