About Precision 2D

[dbsboy]

Partner opens 2D, showing a 11-15 3415 / 4315 / 4414 / 4405

 

Holding

 

[hv=s=saq2hq64dqjt7c963]133|100|[/hv]

 

What will your respond?

 

I realize there may be game, but i dont know what to bid.

 

2H / 2S / 3C = Signoff

 

while 2NT = Min-Max relay (answer: 3C=min, 3D=4405, 3H/3S=Max 4 Card Major, 3N=Max 4414)

 

3D=invite with 44Majors, 3M=Light Invite

 

 

Partner indeed has

[hv=s=saq2hq64dqjt7c963]133|100|[/hv]

so game looks good

 

Second Question: This is the response structure i am currently playing. Simple enough, but i am not sure if it is a nice one.

[hrothgar]

Partner opens 2D, showing a 11-15  3415 / 4315 / 4414 / 4405

 

Holding

 

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ AQ2 ♥ Q64 ♦ QJT7 ♣ 963

 

What will your respond?

 

I realize there may be game, but i dont know what to bid.

 

 

This is an ugly hand for this set of methods.

 

I don't think that I can intelligently explore strain or level. I suspect that my best course of action is to bid 2♥ and provide the opponents with as much room as possible to overcall.

 

I will gleefully start doubling the opponents where ever they might go...

[gwnn]

2♥. I personally don't worry about game on this hand. I do have QJTx opposite x or - after all... If hearts were, say, Kxx, I would still bid 2♥ but would be much less content about it.

 

The relay structure looks fine to me...

[csdenmark]

I go for 2NT.

 

3♣ will be safe heaven if minimum.

 

If any of the other options - 3NT is perfect or at least worth giving a try.

 

---------------------------

 

Below Blue Team Precision responses:

 

2•-Pass=0-9cP,6-7•

2•-2=0-9cP,4+

2•-2=0-9cP,4+

2•-2NT=#ASK distrib

2•-3=0-9cP,4+cd

2•-3=11-12cP,5+

2•-3=11-12cP,5+

2•-4=11-12cP,5+

2•-Game=Signoff

 

over 2NT:

 

3=3-4-1-5

3•=4-3-1-5

3=min,4-4-1-4

3=MAX,4-4-1-4

3NT=min,4-4-0-5

4=MAX,4-4-0-5

[glen]

... 2•-2=0-9cP,4+ ...

For my fonts, this is a perfect example of out-of-the-box thinking

[TylerE]

I dislike 2♦ on that hand. In my main precision partnership, we play 2♦ as described (can be (4-3)=1=5), and 2♣ 'promises' 6, but we generally open 2♣ rather than 2♦ with a club holding like AKQxx or AKJTx.

[awm]

Note that Claus' Blue Team responses don't include any call for hands with patterns like:

 

3343

2353

3253

3352

 

with 0-9 points.

 

Basically, these hands are the big losers for the methods. This eleven point hand is no bargain either -- you can relay with 2NT but playing a 4-3 club fit with no ruffs in the short hand is hardly an elegant solution.

 

I think I would bid 2♥ and hope for the best. Hopefully you play the style where a 4315 opener corrects to 2♠.

[jdonn]

I think I would bid 2♥ and hope for the best. Hopefully you play the style where a 4315 opener corrects to 2♠.

I definitely prefer that style, in my experience it has worked every time it has come up (5 or 6 times), even though you can obviously construct shapes for responder where you want opener to pass anyway (such as 2542).

[glen]

I definitely prefer that style...

agreed, and the other point to make is to bid it smoothly - not tank, tank, tank, 2♥, but a we-have-np 2♥, while behind the poker face you are thinking "please bid a suit opponents!"

[lexlogan]

2NT, planning to pass 3♣, otherwise bid 3NT. 4414 is much less frequent than 3415 or 4315, so I'm not too worried about 3♣. Pass hoping they compete is also reasonable.

 

I play much the same structure, except that I treat 2D-3D as natural inviting 3NT or 5D, opener may pass with a diamond void or poor hand. Offhand I don't see what 3D as 4-4 majors does that 2NT doesn't do.

[han]

Seems like a clear 2H bid.

[Free]

Seems like a clear 2H bid.

Agree

[benlessard]

That why im not fond of 2D precision.

 

Its not clear the 3415/4315 are better at 2D than at 2C. And its clear losing the 2D preempt is a higher cost than the downside of opening 4414 with 1M or 1Nt + the downside of 4405 hands.

[dbsboy]

ok thx for all the responses.

 

I will change the response structure to 2D-2H as pass or correct.

[shintaro]

[D;)

 

Hi

 

Why not just drop the 2♦ opener and open 2♣ with either a 6 card Club suit or a good 5 card club suit

 

Then play the 2!♦ 2!♥ 2!♠ as 3 weak 2;'s

 

Works for us

 

:rolleyes:

[brianshark]

Having the 2♣ opener promise 6 is very useful. A lot of bad scores from opening 2♣ come when the suit quality is poor and/or you have only 5 because you often play in the wrong partscore. 2♦ is a rare enough opening anyway, so if you get the odd bad score from it, it should pay off in good scores you'll get from your 2♣ opening promising 6.

[benlessard]

Having the 2♣ opener promise 6 is very useful. A lot of bad scores from opening 2♣ come when the suit quality is poor and/or you have only 5 because you often play in the wrong partscore.

 

I keep getting this comment a lot and i think that we must be doing something wrong since we are constantly getting good result with our 2C opening ;)

 

I strongly suggest to drop the 2D, its too rare not so efficient and the alternative of opening 2C is equal or just slightly inferior. Just that you ll need to find a way to deal with 4414.

[TylerE]

I'm ok with 2♣ only being 5 at IMPs, but at MP you miss 1NT far to often imo.

[keylime]

This is one of the main reasons why I play 4cM with canape now - this handtype gave me nightmares....

[shintaro]

:)

 

Dealing with the 4414 or any 4441 is relatively easy if you use your 1♦ opener to merely promise 11 - 15 NO 5 Card major Possibly a ♦ Void or a 11 - 12 NT

 

That also works for us

 

;)

[jdonn]

Having the 2♣ opener promise 6 is very useful. A lot of bad scores from opening 2♣ come when the suit quality is poor and/or you have only 5 because you often play in the wrong partscore.

 

I keep getting this comment a lot and i think that we must be doing something wrong since we are constantly getting good result with our 2C opening ;)

Since this is not true for any of the rest of us who have played precision with 2♣=5+ before, I think you are simply going to have to accept that people don't believe you on this point. :) Not that you are lying, but that your memory is selective or that you have simply been extremely fortunate.

[mycroft]

My good results with 2C openers frequently come when partner raises to 3C (strictly competitive). Partner has been known to raise to 3C on Qx. That's aggressive opposite 6+, but foolhardy opposite 5+.

 

I take what I can get out of 2D openers (applying a strong Bid What You Think You Can Make approach to responses), accepting them as a rare loss leader, knowing that I lose on the 2D opening (which means that there are the odd HHxxxx 10-count 1D, and HHxxxx, <10count 3D openings) but that it's better than the lossage those hands into 1D or 2C are going to get me. I get burned sometimes. And yes, I had the dreaded 2D-2H; 2S-p auction once. It sucked as much as you'd expect it to. Still played a trick better than the 3-3.

[blackshoe]

In reading about the Romex Forcing Club (in Godfrey's Stairway to the Stars by Rosenkranz and Alder) I wondered what one should do in a GCC context. See, the 2♦ opening in this system (which is otherwise much like Precision - and btw 2♣ shows 6 or more) is strong and artificial. So what the system does with the "Precision 2♦ hands is open 2♥. Problem with this (in North America) is that it's Mid-Chart. What if you can't play Mid-Chart? Give up the Mexican 2D? This messes up a bunch of things, like the opener's NT ladder, and handling GF minor suit oriented hands. So I didn't think much of it. Give up the "Precision 2♦"? Granted it doesn't come up very often, but when it does, what do you do? I dunno, but I gather some here, at least, wouldn't have much problem with giving it (the Precision, not the Mexican) up. Is that an accurate assessment? I dunno how any would feel about giving up the Mexican.

[Vilgan]

Having the 2♣ opener promise 6 is very useful. A lot of bad scores from opening 2♣ come when the suit quality is poor and/or you have only 5 because you often play in the wrong partscore.

 

I keep getting this comment a lot and i think that we must be doing something wrong since we are constantly getting good result with our 2C opening :rolleyes:

Since this is not true for any of the rest of us who have played precision with 2♣=5+ before, I think you are simply going to have to accept that people don't believe you on this point. ;) Not that you are lying, but that your memory is selective or that you have simply been extremely fortunate.

will you open up 2♣ with 5 if your points are concentrated in clubs?

 

I do occasionally if my other choices suck more, but curious if this is me lacking discipline or a "god I hate life" choice that we all make occasionally.