The Heart suit - II

[Finch]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=sqhakq842d42caj93]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1NT x 2♥ 3♦

P ?[/hv]

 

1NT = 12-14

x = penalties, 16+ balanced or slightly lighter with a good lead

2♥ = natural

3♦ = natural, game forcing

 

Partner's other relevant options over 2♥ were:

- double, take-out but usually a doubleton heart, never a void

- 2NT lebensohl

- 3♥ three-suited game force, singleton or void heart

- pass would have been non-forcing

[655321]

Not sure if an opponent has forgotten their system and LHO has spades, or if LHO is messing about (vul?), or (improbably) hearts are 6520 around the table, and everyone has their bid.

 

I would bid 3NT now, not especially happily, but because I don't know how a 3♥ bid will get us more information. Partner can hardly bid 3NT, and even if he can bid 3♠ and we bid 3NT, he might think our heart stopper is shaky - hard for him to guess we have AKQxxx. Maybe we can bid to a good 5 or 6 diamond contract by starting with 3♥, but maybe we will get to a bad contract instead.

 

I am reluctant to read too much into partner's lack of a 3♥ bid. Or at least, I don't want to try too hard for 6♦ using this reason - that partner must have such and such a shape to bid this way, or will have diamonds suitable for slam opposite a doubleton to bid this way, even with the opening bid sitting over him.

[hotShot]

I miss a lot of spades, but at this level I don't believe that opps forgot that they play transfer. So the ♠ are 4441 (or opener has 5 low ♠'s) and ♥ are 6520 or 6421. That leaves partner with 8-9 cards in the minors.

I don't like it but 3NT seems the best choice.

[Codo]

1: I bid 3 NT

2. After they took their 5 (+) spade tricks, I look if the explanation of 2 ♥ was correct.

3. If it was not correct, I call the TD and get the score I deserve.

4. If it was correct, I write down my bad result, but I am not able to bid Hearts now and I am not willing to bet that 5 Diamond is a better spot.

[Gerben42]

I miss a lot of spades, but at this level I don't believe that opps forgot that they play transfer.

 

You better believe it. But at least you'll get your money back in this case. I bid 3NT because I cannot get to ♥ after this start. If 2♥ was natural and it's their system and they bluffed me, congrats.

[mikeh]

3♥... presumably a cue, looking to see if partner can bid 3♠, over which I bid 3N, having minimized the chance that responder was psyching with long spades.. and bidding 4♥ over anything else.. since 1N doubled gives responder free rein, partner should be able to work this out.

[mr1303]

Probably misinformation as well. I try 3NT ready to call the cops. If a director suggests this is failure to play bridge, I appeal.

[jdonn]

Agree with 3NT, and agree with call director if it turns out 2♥ was a transfer.

[MarkDean]

We told partner we have a good hand, s/he did not force game (or is 3D forcing?). Hearts are not running, and we have a misfit, I would pass.

[Finch]

We told partner we have a good hand, s/he did not force game (or is 3D forcing?). Hearts are not running, and we have a misfit, I would pass.

3D is systemically natural and game forcing (partner could have bid 2NT lebensohl to show a weaker hand with a minor)

[MarkDean]

We told partner we have a good hand, s/he did not force game (or is 3D forcing?).  Hearts are not running, and we have a misfit, I would pass.

3D is systemically natural and game forcing (partner could have bid 2NT lebensohl to show a weaker hand with a minor)

Oops, sorry for my pass vote then. Put me in the 3NT camp.

[mikeh]

Agree with 3NT, and agree with call director if it turns out 2♥ was a transfer.

And congratulate lho for successfully pulling off a baby psyche with J109xxx x xxx xxx? Catching opener with AKxx xxx Kxx Kxx?

 

You may well be correct with 3N, but does it hurt to ask partner if he has 4 spades? Of course, it is perhaps unclear if 3♠ by partner over 3♥ shows 4 spades B) KJx x AQxxxx xxx?

[benlessard]

3Nt in tempo.

[jdonn]

Agree with 3NT, and agree with call director if it turns out 2♥ was a transfer.

And congratulate lho for successfully pulling off a baby psyche with J109xxx x xxx xxx?

Why would I congratulate the jerk!

[skjaeran]

3NT. If LHO psyched, I'm taken in - nothing to do about it.

[Cascade]

Agree with 3NT, and agree with call director if it turns out 2♥ was a transfer.

And congratulate lho for successfully pulling off a baby psyche with J109xxx x xxx xxx?

Why would I congratulate the jerk!

Why would you consider your opponent was a jerk ?

 

Because of the psyche?

[han]

I didn't think it was partifcularly funny but now it is.

[effervesce]

I bid 3♥.

 

The opps are almost certain to have at least an 8 card spade fit. If partner can bid 3♠, then 3NT is probably right. If he can't, he will either have heart support, or club support, or a chunky diamond suit.

 

3154, 3263, 3064 are probable hand shapes for partner.

[han]

I think mikeh made a good case for 3H, where are the spades?

[benlessard]

The problem imo is if they didnt psych and you dont bid 3Nt now youll never reach 3Nt. Partner got a H void and will surely prefer 5D to 3Nt even with so-so diamonds. Also for me 4H by me or by my partner would be a cuebid so even if they psych and we got an H fit there is no way for me to play there since the psych isnt exposed.

[mikeh]

The problem imo is if they didnt psych and you dont bid 3Nt now youll never reach 3Nt. Partner got a H void and will surely prefer 5D to 3Nt even with so-so diamonds. Also for me 4H by me or by my partner would be a cuebid so even if they psych and we got an H fit there is no way for me to play there since the psych isnt exposed.

You should consider changing your methods... this type of psyche is very easy to find..... the conditions are ideal, in that partner cannot bid again... when you run from a penalty double, he can't raise even with 4 card support, not because you might be psyching, but because you may be on a 5332 zero count (or even a 3=4=3=3, if your methods don't allow another rescue sequence).

 

Consider [1x] x [1y]... I know of no good player who plays double of 1y as takeout... double (and 2y, which shows a different holding) are both 'natural' precisely because 1y is such a baby psyche when responder has weakness and support for x. If anything, this baby psyche is more dangerous than the psychic run-out from 1N, since opener, after 1x, is allowed to and will often raise the y suit.

 

Consider also our 2♣ auctions... have you never had an opp overcall, at favourable, in, say, 2♥ while holding long, weak spades? If not, you have led a charmed life... but as soon as your opps realize that they can bar you from your natural trump suit by psyching, you are in for a very difficult time.

 

As for never reaching 3N... what about my suggested auction of 3♥, which is ostensibly a cue bid... advancer will certainly bid 3♠ with 4 of them (which greatly reduces the odds of 2♥ being a psyche) or with a chunky 3 card holding... with which your stiff Q probably makes for 2 stoppers and thus renders 3N eminently playable even if 2♥ was a psyche.

 

If partner bids anything other than 3♠, 4♥ should never be a cue.

[cherdano]

Mike, I agree with most of your points but Ben's point about missing also true 3N. When you cue 3♥ then bid 3N over 3♠, this suggests a doubt about strains, typically a tenuous stopper. With partner's likely heart shortness or weak doubleton, he will pull 3N most of the time, I don't think you have exposed a psych on that sequence.

Maybe it is still worth it (who says pulling will be wrong if he has 6-4, anyway), but 3♥ does have its risks.

[jdonn]

Agree with 3NT, and agree with call director if it turns out 2♥ was a transfer.

And congratulate lho for successfully pulling off a baby psyche with J109xxx x xxx xxx?

Why would I congratulate the jerk!

Why would you consider your opponent was a jerk ?

 

Because of the psyche?

Yes anyone who psychs is a bad person and is obviously cheating. That was the point I was trying to make.

[kenrexford]

Agree with 3NT, and agree with call director if it turns out 2♥ was a transfer.

And congratulate lho for successfully pulling off a baby psyche with J109xxx x xxx xxx? Catching opener with AKxx xxx Kxx Kxx?

 

You may well be correct with 3N, but does it hurt to ask partner if he has 4 spades? Of course, it is perhaps unclear if 3♠ by partner over 3♥ shows 4 spades B) KJx x AQxxxx xxx?

AHA!!! Someone else uses the term!

[benlessard]

its clear that 4H in

 

3H-----4H

 

is a cue.

 

I can live with

 

3H-------3Nt

4H

 

& a direct 4H

 

as natural.

 

But for

 

3H-------3S

4H

 

3H------4C

4H

 

i wouldnt be so sure that we should play 4H as natural.

 

Here is a hand we got in November

 

 

(1Nt 10-14)-------X----------(2H)------------P

(P)-----------------X----------(P)-------------2S

(P)----------------???

 

Here youre hand is something like

 

 

AKQ

Qxx

AKQxxx

A

 

its a highly unlikely problem and my example is less than perfect but still...

Do you feel confident enough that 3H is still a cue and not natural ?

Is 4D forcing ?

 

Even if you have the understanding that cue followed by game in the suit is natural does it show self-sufficient suit ?

 

imagine that the bidding goes.

 

3H------3S

4H

 

3H------4C

4H

 

should partner pass 4H with

 

4054

or 3055.

 

On 1 side you have a simple rule where if you X them or pass a take-out X and they run bidding their suit become natural at whatever level.

 

On the other side you have that a cue bid followed by a further bid that mignt be natural or not depending on the response or the likeliness of them psyching and still you dont know if its a solid suit or not.

 

 

Its lame to get our fit stolen because of a riskless psych but its something a price you have to pay to avoid major disaster and have a smooth sailing for hands where they didnt psych.