Whose bidding mistake?

[Quarky]

NS vulnerable, E opens (I sat E), IMP pairs

 

bidding went

 

E - S - W - N

1♠ - pass - 1nt - pass

2♣ - DBL - pass - 2♦

pass - 3♣ - 4♣ - 4♦

pass - 5♦ -DBL - ALL pass

 

E (my) hand:

 

KJ843

82

Q

KQ853

 

W hand:

 

7

10953

A107

107642

 

 

 

We ended up setting the contract, but only due to declarer's mistake. I disagree with partner's double at imps, while he is extremely angry with my opening and said to never open it with him again. Do you agree with my partner that I should pass this 6-loser hand with 5 cards in the blacks????

[helene_t]

I probably wouldn't have opened this hand but I am not saying it's wrong to do so. It is certainly very close. BTW I wouldn't call this a 6-loser hand. You should count KQxxx as one and a half loser so the hand is six and a half.

 

Anyway, although your decision to open this hand - which has very little defense against a diamond contract - was the reason you ended up defeinding 5♦x, it isn't really material since it is ok to open a hand with so little defense. Make ♦Q a small one and add ♠Q and I think most would open the hand in 1st seat white vs red.

 

Partner's double is fine with me. It doesn't promise that 5♦ goes down 100% of the time. He is entitled to hope for some defense in your hand, and when you haven't it's just bad luck.

[655321]

Well, I would always open 1♠, even though it is a pretty bad hand.

 

But why is it a mistake to double 5♦? Doubling games at IMPs is not a crime. If you think their game is going down, you can double them. If they make 750 instead of 600, you lose just 4 IMPs. If you get 200 instead of 100 you win 3, or if you get 500 instead of 200 you win 7.

[Quarky]

Well my thought about the dbl is that if *I* have defensive values, then why wont i double myself, knowing of pard's 1nt call? I suppose his holding of the trump ace and the singleton spade makes it reasonable, so i dont strongly disagree with the call. I didnt try to blame my pard or anything, i am just shocked that he is so pissed off about my 1S

[jdonn]

I think it's much better tactics for south to raise 2♣ to 3♣ over the double, passing is feeble and obviously less effective.

 

I think the double was alright. You probably won't get that rich but there seem to be reasonable chances they will go down.

[RichMor]

IMO,

 

The opening 1♠ bid is OK and Pass is also OK.

 

West's bidding is somewhere between strange and loony tunes; doesn't raise 2♣ to 3 but does bid 4♣.

 

The final Double is marginal. Nothing in West's hand or in the bidding suggests that N/S are going down more than one.

[mikeh]

The title asks 'whose bidding mistake', and is inadequate.

 

I see that everyone else thinks that opening that pile of cr*p as E is acceptable, if borderline. I disagree... strongly... unless playing a big club method or some other approach in which light openings are permitted.

 

I am surprised that no-one has yet quoted the abysmal rule of 20 to justify opening... but, of course, if they did they would merely be highlighting how silly the rule is. BTW, I'd have no objection to opening with KQJxx xx x KQxxx... but surely nobody thinks that the two hands are similar, in terms of hand evaluation?

 

West also comes in for criticism.. I don't mind the 1N, especially if played as forcing (which we are not told about) and I don't mind the pass of 2♣, altho if 1N were not forcing, 2♣ shows a real suit, and I would raise... 3♣ would not show a good hand, because good hands with club support start with redouble.

 

But having passed, 4♣ is insane.

 

Double is reasonable... we have a stiff, and the trump Ace so that we rate to set them, perhaps 2 or even 3 tricks (altho the opps have to be very bad for a 3 trick set to be possible).. give partner AJxxx xx x AJxxx as a minimum opening, and on a spade lead, we may score a spade, 2 ruffs, and the minor aces.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

to open or not to open is matter of partnership agreement,

if your partner says, he does not like it, either stop playing

with him or stop to open those hands.

 

As it is, if you move the Queen of diamonds to spades, the

hand now is a fairly standard opening, your partner agrees?,

the double wont be a succes either.

In short the double is ok, but partner should not be surprised,

if 5D makes.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Just because a hand has only a certain number of loosers

does not justify a opening bid.

The LTC is a sensible method to evaluate a hand, but it is not

a method with which alone one can decide, if a hand should be

opened.

The rule of 20 is fine, but common sense will tell you, that you

should only take working points into account, you have 9, hence

the hand does satisfy the rule of 20.

[han]

I would also pass. I think 5D is down after a spade lead.

[awm]

I agree with Mikeh, this hand is not an opening bid assuming any normal methods.

 

You have 11 high but the diamond queen is wasted and you have no aces. This hand will be a big disappointment to partner most of the time. In general my recommendation is to usually have 12 points to open at the one level. Opening with shape and less points is okay sometimes, but you should have a very "pure" hand with values in your suits to do this. Less than twelve with stray queens or jacks in the short suits is not an opening bid.

 

On the other hand, I don't really get why partner would double 5♦ especially at IMP scoring. He doesn't have much for defense here.

[Codo]

I like to open 5/5 hands, but this hand is too weak. Like Mike said, put the queen of diamonds into the spade suit and this is a good hand. So it is lousy.

 

But I wonder why nobody critsize Wests insane bidding (besides his failure to raise clubs asap).

His 1 NT bid contains a singelton in partners suit and just 4 HCPs. This looks like a clear pass to me.

His pass and his 4 ♣ bid are bad and just his double was okay. You need just one ace and they are down after a spade lead.

 

So he should shut up and never critisize his partners bids.

[Deevan]

Call me old fashioned or whatever, I have problems with the bidding by W hand. As far as the opener(E), I would bid, it may be aggressive but I do not see much wrong with it. I think, the 1NT response is a bit optimistic too. But the real problem started, I believe, when W bid 4C with meagre values and a massive fit, and holding a lower rank minor. Did it not tell the opponents that they probably do not have too many club losers! They probable found their hands as a good fit. Either I would bid 5C or not bid at all with the W hand after 3C Qbid. I would not double 5D with that hand.

[H_KARLUK]

Agreed 1 Sp opening, srry disagreed penalty x with

7

10953

A107

107642

[mcphee]

Opening the bidding was not best in my view. Players seem so anxious to bid they overlook partner thinking they have something. You will be able to bid later most days.

 

I also believe it is 100% right to respond when you hold an ace and it would be upsetting to me to see any partner of mine pass. I would not pass 2C as responder with 5 trumps very often, you are just leaving the door open to the opps. and could easily be making a game and may not get another chance to reach that game.

 

Dble 5D is ok with me, why not? I expect to have a shot at beating it more often than not and i do not expect them to be sending it back.

[kfay]

[quote name='H_KARLUK' date=' Nov 28 2008, 05:16 PM

Agreed 1 Sp opening, srry disagreed penalty x with

7

10953

A107

107642

]

 

Definitely a fine double. I've got trump control and shortness opposite partner's opener... If he's got a normal opener then partner only needs an ace?

[kfay]

Double post.

[JoAnneM]

I agree with those who say this is a partnership thing. If this is a deal breaker for your partner then decide if you want to continue playing with him. If you accept not opening this kind of hand then also realize that his openers will be sound and adjust your bidding accordingly. It seems like it is not a matter of who is wrong or right, just a matter of if this is a true partnership or not.