2/1 vs SAYC

[kgr]

What are the main differences between 2/1 and standard american: ...If I'm used to SAYC and want to pretent on BBO that I know 2/1, then at least I should know...

- 2 over 1 bid is GF (off by passed hand and in competition)

- 1M-1NT is forcing (off by passed hand and in competition)

- Walsh is almost standard in 2/1

- weak and limit 3 card tais go via 1NT

- J2NT part of 2/1?

 

- DBLs, penalty after 2/1?

[TylerE]

Well, it kinda depends on what you mean? Do you mean *real* 2/1, or the SA with 2/1 GF and 1NTF that most people who claim to play 2/1 actually play.

[kgr]

Well, it kinda depends on what you mean? Do you mean *real* 2/1, or the SA with 2/1 GF and 1NTF that most people who claim to play 2/1 actually play.

I mean comparison of BBO 2/1 with BBO SAYC (BBO=what most people on BBO will think it is).

For 2/1: anything that is considered pretty standard (I know that no real standard exists). I tried to give a list of what it is in my original post.

[ArcLight]

One thing I've seen players do who are not experienced with 2/1 is make unnecessary jumps, after a 2/1. You are already in a GF auction, and further jumps have very specififc meanings (at least they do in Mike Lawrences 2/1 notes).

 

 

Playing 2/1 with a pick up pard, what does this mean:

 

1. 1♠ - 3♣

Is it Bergen, or an invitational jump shift.

 

 

2. 1♦ - 2♣

Is this 100% GF or just until 4 of a minor?

 

 

3. 1♠ - 2♣

2♦ - 3♣

Is this passable?

 

4. 1♠ - 2♦

2♠

 

How many spades does opener have?

[kgr]

One thing I've seen players do who are not experienced with 2/1 is make unnecessary jumps, after a 2/1.  You are already in a GF auction, and further jumps have very specififc meanings (at least they do in Mike Lawrences 2/1 notes).

 

 

Playing 2/1 with a pick up pard, what does this mean:

 

1.  1♠ - 3♣

Is it Bergen, or an invitational jump shift.

..no idea what the best assumption is.

2. 1♦ - 2♣

Is this 100% GF or just until 4 of a minor?

100% GF (safest assumption)

 

3. 1♠ - 2♣

  2♦ - 3♣

Is this passable?

No (safest assumption)

 

4. 1♠ - 2♦

  2♠

How many spades does opener have?

Not sure what is most close to standard?

 

..Some more:

What is usually in 2/1: 1S-2C-?

3H:

3S:

3NT:

4S:

[awm]

There are different ways to play 2/1, just like there are different ways to play standard. It's worth mentioning that 2/1 generally includes some conventions that are part of standard like jacoby 2NT, fourth suit forcing (usually to game), and fairly typical responses to your 1NT opening (transfers etc).

 

The main differences are:

 

(1) In 2/1, the 1NT response is forcing. This handles all hands too weak to force game and without a fit. Also, fitting hands which are either very weak, or limit raise with only three trumps, normally bid 1NT.

 

(2) 1M-3M promises four-card support.

 

(3) Bidding 2/1 in a new suit is game forcing over 1M.

 

There are a couple things that are worthwhile to discuss in a regular 2/1 partnership. In particular:

 

(1) Is 1♦-2♣ game forcing?

 

(2) Do reverses in 2/1 auctions still promise extra values?

 

(3) How do you play jump shifts over your openings? (weak or invitational is more common than "strong" among 2/1 players, since a strong hand can often start with a 2/1 bid)

 

(4) How do you play 1m-2NT

 

There are a number of treatments and conventions which, while not exactly "part of 2/1" are commonly assumed when a pickup pair agrees to play 2/1. These include:

 

(1) Inverted minors.

(2) Walsh style responses to 1♣.

(3) Splinters.

(4) New minor force.

 

Some other popular conventions often used by 2/1 players include:

 

(1) Bergen raises.

(2) Constructive 1M-2M raises.

(3) Flannery (gasp!)

[Gerben42]

(2) Walsh style responses to 1♣.

 

Wow, this one's new for me! It wouldn't occur to me to bid 1♣ - 1♥ on

 

xx

KJxx

KJxxx

xx

 

playing "2-over-1". And opponents don't alert it either.

[maggieb]

Well, it kinda depends on what you mean? Do you mean *real* 2/1, or the SA with 2/1 GF and 1NTF that most people who claim to play 2/1 actually play.

What is the real 2/1? Have I been a phony all these years? I'm dying to know.

[blackshoe]

(2) Walsh style responses to 1♣.

 

Wow, this one's new for me! It wouldn't occur to me to bid 1♣ - 1♥ on

 

xx

KJxx

KJxxx

xx

 

playing "2-over-1". And opponents don't alert it either.

Whether a Walsh style 1M response is alertable depends on where you play. In the ACBL, for example, it's not.

 

I play 2/1 with two regular partners. With one, we've agreed Walsh style responses. The other initially agreed to them, but the first time it came up, she balked, decided she can't handle them, and refuses now to play them. :P

[TylerE]

Well, it kinda depends on what you mean? Do you mean *real* 2/1, or the SA with 2/1 GF and 1NTF that most people who claim to play 2/1 actually play.

What is the real 2/1? Have I been a phony all these years? I'm dying to know.

What i mean is a real 2/1 system, which means understanding of 4SF auctions, cue bid auctions, etc.

[Wackojack]

One thing I've seen players do who are not experienced with 2/1 is make unnecessary jumps, after a 2/1. You are already in a GF auction, and further jumps have very specififc meanings (at least they do in Mike Lawrences 2/1 notes).

 

 

Playing 2/1 with a pick up pard, what does this mean:

 

1. 1♠ - 3♣

Is it Bergen, or an invitational jump shift.

 

 

2. 1♦ - 2♣

Is this 100% GF or just until 4 of a minor?

 

 

3. 1♠ - 2♣

2♦ - 3♣

Is this passable?

 

4. 1♠ - 2♦

2♠

 

How many spades does opener have?

I don't know 2/1 that well, so imagine I am your pick-up partner.

 

1. Invitational

 

2. Game force

 

3. Definitely not passable

 

4. Could have 5

 

GIB is supposed to play 2/1 and I am not sure if it plays 1. as invitational