Your bid?

[OleBerg]

[hv=d=e&v=e&s=s1098hk64d5cak10642]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

1♣ - (1♠) - 2♦ (Opponents silent from here)

3♣ - 4♦

4♥ - 4NT

5♣ - 5♠

???

 

4♦ = Sets diamonds.

4♥ = Cue

4nt = RKCB

5♣ = One ace

5♠ = Undiscussed, but 5♥ would have asked for the thrumph queen.

 

Edit:

 

Concerning some of the replies below:

 

1) 5♠ is definately not a transfer to 5NT.

2) In the circles where the hand took place, no-one would expect neither 5♠ nor 5nt to show or ask for either specific or a number of kings.

[Hanoi5]

Some partnerships play that as asking partner to bid 5NT (to play there, two aces are missing), but in this case 5♦ would have been to pass, so I bid 6♦.

[ArtK78]

It has always been my understanding that one cannot get out in 5NT in an RKCB auction.

 

Minor suit auctions are always problems - hence the invention of minorwood, kickback, and other ways to ask for aces and keycards at lower levels than 4NT.

 

One part of RKCB that many do not know about is that you can skip the queen-ask by bidding the next suit. So, if this is truly an RKCB auction, 5♠ should say that the bidder is not interested in the queen of trump but does want partner to show specific kings.

[cherdano]

One part of RKCB that many do not know about is that you can skip the queen-ask by bidding the next suit.

That's what I like to play after making agreements, but I think standard is that 5N is always the specific king ask, and 5♠ here would be asking about spades.

[mike777]

For me after rkc and if you bid above Q ask you are showing the k of bid suit and confirm all keycards. In this example 5s shows all keycards and the K of spades.

5nt over 5c would be specific K ask. Over 5s, in this case I now bid 6c, I guess I have shown the KH with my 4h bid.

 

btw that is why over 4d setting trumps I prefer 4h now as rkc so I can often make all these bids at a lower level. 4nt over 4d would show the Heart ace.

[han]

This is another one of those "how do you play this" questions that is disguised as a "what would you bid", or as a "guess what partner is thinking".

 

I also prefer playing that 5S asks for specific kings.

 

No intelligent partnerships will play that 5S asks partner to bid 5NT here.

[OleBerg]

This is another one of those "how do you play this" questions that is disguised as a "what would you bid", or as a "guess what partner is thinking".

 

I also prefer playing that 5S asks for specific kings.

 

No intelligent partnerships will play that 5S asks partner to bid 5NT here.

You are on the track.

 

This is a "what would you bid", but it will be followed by a "how would you play this".

[jdonn]

It's inconcievable that partner meant this to sign off in 5NT, since our response was below 5♦ so he could have signed off there. I would normally play this as asking for kings in which case I would show the club king, but I'm not going to guess what partner is up to and my spade holding is bad in case that's what he has in mind, so 6♦ is my bid.

[effervesce]

5♠ is a misunderstanding-asking-bid asking you to roll a dice to decide what to bid next. Unfortunately, the dice you hold is lucky enough to have the same answer on all the faces. If it's a specific king ask, 6♣. If it's asking for number of kings, 6♣. If it's asking you to pick between diamonds and clubs, 6♣.

[OleBerg]

5♠ is a bid asking you to roll a dice to decide what to bid next. Fortunately, the dice you hold is lucky enough to have the same answer on all the faces. If it's a specific king ask, 6♣. If it's asking for number of kings, 6♣. If it's asking you to pick between diamonds and clubs, 6♣.

Try again. It is not asking for kings, neither number nor specific. And diamonds has been set for thrumphs.

[Echognome]

It's inconcievable that partner meant this to sign off in 5NT...

You're beginning to sound like Vizzini.

[jdonn]

It's inconcievable that partner meant this to sign off in 5NT...

You're beginning to sound like Vizzini.

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

[effervesce]

5♠ is a bid asking you to roll a dice to decide what to bid next. Fortunately, the dice you hold is lucky enough to have the same answer on all the faces. If it's a specific king ask, 6♣. If it's asking for number of kings, 6♣. If it's asking you to pick between diamonds and clubs, 6♣.

Try again. It is not asking for kings, neither number nor specific. And diamonds has been set for thrumphs.

A cuebid? Geez, partner could have bid 4♠. Specific suit ask? If partner really meant that as a specific suit ask without prior agreement to using specific suit asks, he should be shot.

[OleBerg]

5♠ is a bid asking you to roll a dice to decide what to bid next. Fortunately, the dice you hold is lucky enough to have the same answer on all the faces. If it's a specific king ask, 6♣. If it's asking for number of kings, 6♣. If it's asking you to pick between diamonds and clubs, 6♣.

Try again. It is not asking for kings, neither number nor specific. And diamonds has been set for thrumphs.

A cuebid? Geez, partner could have bid 4♠. Specific suit ask? If partner really meant that as a specific suit ask without prior agreement to using specific suit asks, he should be shot.

On 4♥, 4♠ would have been a normal cuebid.

 

You have not discussed 5♠, 5NT or 6♣, but you are sure that none of them asks for kings in any way, but that they are all inviting grandslam somehow.

 

Maybe not an ideal situation, but as it is a pick-up partnership you are stuck with it.

[Lobowolf]

In a cuebidding sequence (in my partnerships, anyway), both sides are in a cooperative mode; they're mutually exchanging information until someone knows enough to set the contract or at least give up on more, at least from his view.

 

In contrast, when someone bids keycard either earlier in an auction or by breaking off a cuebidding exchange, that partner is taking the lead role and essentially putting himself in the best position to judge what's going on, if he's given information (or in other words, he's assuming captaincy). Partner's either asking or telling about spades in an effort to get to something above and beyond 6♦; per the fact that he's assumed control by bidding RKC, he should be asking. My spades are worthless, so I'm bidding 6♦.

[Lobowolf]

This is another one of those "how do you play this" questions that is disguised as a "what would you bid", or as a "guess what partner is thinking".

 

I also prefer playing that 5S asks for specific kings.

 

No intelligent partnerships will play that 5S asks partner to bid 5NT here.

What's 5NT (instead of 5♠, not in response to 5♠)?

 

 

Edit: I mean, in those partnerships where 5♠ would ask for specific kings. I meant to trim your quote down to the middle line.

[mike777]

If OP is asking how do we sign off in 4nt or 5nt when a trump suit is agreed at the 4 level, I assume in a pickup partnership I cannot. In fact I cannot in a detailed partnership(very very often 4nt or 5nt is a cue in kickback suit or Qtrump ask bid). I just live with it. :blink:

[matmat]

I don't really understand this auction. wouldn't a hand interested in slam start with a cue?

[kfay]

FWIW I wouldn't have cuebid the ♥K because 1) my hand is a piece of junk, 2) when it comes to diamonds my hand is really a piece of junk.

 

I'd just bid 6♦ now. If 5♠ isn't a K ask then I can't really think of what partner is asking me for but whatever it is, I don't have it.

[maggieb]

FWIW I wouldn't have cuebid the ♥K because 1) my hand is a piece of junk, 2) when it comes to diamonds my hand is really a piece of junk.

 

I'd just bid 6♦ now. If 5♠ isn't a K ask then I can't really think of what partner is asking me for but whatever it is, I don't have it.

Partner bid 4♦ and I have no waste in spades. On top of this I have a very strong side suit that should be very useful. I think cuebidding here was completely obvious.

 

Now like the others I bid 6♦, but I am a little nervous about it.

[peachy]

5♠ is a bid asking you to roll a dice to decide what to bid next. Fortunately, the dice you hold is lucky enough to have the same answer on all the faces. If it's a specific king ask, 6♣. If it's asking for number of kings, 6♣. If it's asking you to pick between diamonds and clubs, 6♣.

Try again. It is not asking for kings, neither number nor specific. And diamonds has been set for thrumphs.

A cuebid? Geez, partner could have bid 4♠. Specific suit ask? If partner really meant that as a specific suit ask without prior agreement to using specific suit asks, he should be shot.

On 4♥, 4♠ would have been a normal cuebid.

 

You have not discussed 5♠, 5NT or 6♣, but you are sure that none of them asks for kings in any way, but that they are all inviting grandslam somehow.

 

Maybe not an ideal situation, but as it is a pick-up partnership you are stuck with it.

You keep telling that you know for sure 5S is not asking. What "WOULD" have been asking for specific or number of kings? Did you have a trump queen ask as part of RKC or not? Apparently you had discussed somethiong since you tell us that you had not discussed 5S, 5NT or 6C.

 

Anyway, I'm bidding 6D like everybody else since diamonds were set as trump. Hope we not losing 2 spades off the top.

[OleBerg]

Seems I am taking to many things for granted, so let me rephrase the question:

 

5♠ invites grand-slam in diamonds, but you have have not discussed what the difference is betweem 5♠, 5NT and 6♣.

 

You have however discussed, that 5♥ would have asked for the thrumph queen, and that you never ask for kings.

 

What do you bid now; 5NT, 6♣ or 6♦?

[kfay]

FWIW I wouldn't have cuebid the ♥K because 1) my hand is a piece of junk, 2) when it comes to diamonds my hand is really a piece of junk.

 

I'd just bid 6♦ now.  If 5♠ isn't a K ask then I can't really think of what partner is asking me for but whatever it is, I don't have it.

Partner bid 4♦ and I have no waste in spades. On top of this I have a very strong side suit that should be very useful. I think cuebidding here was completely obvious.

 

Now like the others I bid 6♦, but I am a little nervous about it.

I don't really get this idea. Would our hand be worse if you threw the ♠K in it? It's hard to have wastage in spades when we have few HCP to actually waste. I'm being a tad facetious because I realize what it means to not be wasted in the opponent's suit but I really think when I cuebid partner starts to expect a lot more from me... which I don't doubt led to his decision to make some sort of grand slam try.

 

Furthermore the club suit could potentially be useful, sure, but I'd hardly classify it as a big suit when when partner hasn't expressed any interest so is probably short and we have maybe only 1 outside entry to help set it up. If partner has a stiff then we're really in trouble.

[skjaeran]

I play 5♠ as specifically asking for a 3rd round spade control.

Lacking that, I sign off in 6♦.

[OleBerg]

Hi all,

 

It seems most have not found this hand really interesting. I did.

 

I really believe this hand is worth another bid outside of 6♦.

 

Partner has shown solid diamonds, and thas guaranteed that we have all the aces. If partner has six solid diamonds (which is the least he could have), and a doubleton club, 7♦ is odds on. Considering what partner has shown, if we had ♣AKQxx, 7♦ would be a no brainer. So if we bid 6♣, reinviting, we should show a club-suit that is suited for grand, but not as good as AKQxx.

 

So in my opinion 6♣ is the right bid.

 

The full hand can be seen in the thread "I bid it, you play it."