Some ideas around Millenium Club (Natural Club :))

[borag]

Hi, I need some advice & ideas about my new system trials :)

Here is first one

 

I tried to seperate

a- hands strong with bal / quasi bal distribution (needs points)

b- hands strong with playing tricks (needs distribution and less if it is wild)

 

Pros:

a- Simple I believe and mostly naturel. Transfers after 1C opening and openers 1N shows strong hands 19+. (And some other tweaks B))

b- Lots of weak openings

c- Comments ?

Cons:

a- 11-12 balanced no 5M hands cant be opened

b- Comments ?

 

1♣=10-18 unbal 5+♣, 4414

      19+ bal 5M possible

      19+ unbal 4441, 54(22/31) any

1♦=10-18 unbal 5+♦, 4441, (41)44

      17-18 bal 2+♦

1♥=10-18 unbal 5+♥

      10-13 / 17-18 bal 5♥

1♠=10-18 unbal 5+♠

      10-13 / 17-18 bal 5♠

1N =13-16 bal 5M possible

2♣=7-10 unbal 5+♦

      19+ unbal 5M-5x, 6M-4x, 6+M (Can be less depending on distribution)

      19+ unbal 5440 any

2♦=7-10 unbal 5+M

      19+ unbal 6m-4x, 6+m (Can be less depending on distribution)

2♥=7-10 unbal 4+M-4+M

2♠=8-12 unbal 5+♠(good sp pree)

2N =8-12 unbal 5m-5m

      19+ unbal 5m-5m (Can be less depending on distribution)

[borag]

And one alternative

2♣=17-18 bal no 5M

       19+ unbal 5M-5x, 6M-4x, 6+M (Less with distr)

2♦=7-10 unbal 5+M

       19+ unbal 5440 any

       19+ unbal 6m-4x, 6+m

 

So now 1♦ is always unbal with 4+♦

Just misses weak 2♦

[glen]

Balanced hands less than 17 are your bread 'n butter

 

In this system:

11-12 balanced have to pass or overbid

13-16 balanced are in a 4 point range 1NT

 

Compare with standard:

Most 11s pass

12-14 open suit, rebid 1NT

15-17 are in a 3 point 1NT

 

Compare with Meckwell:

11-13 open 1D, rebid 1NT

14-16 are in a 3 point 1NT

 

System has too much steak, not enough bread 'n butter: low carbs

[borag]

Thanks glen, not easy to ladder bal hands :( what about something like

1♣=10-18 unbal 5+♣, 4414 or 19+ bal,4441,54(22/31)

1♦=10-18 unbal 5+♦, 4441,(41)44 OR 15-16 2+♦

1♥=10-18 unbal 5+♥ OR 15-18 bal 5♥

1♠=10-18 unbal 5+♠ OR 15-18 bal 5♠

1n =11-14 bal 5M (H always S may open 1S)

2♣=17-18 bal no 5M OR 19+ unbal 5M-5x, 6M-4x, 6+M

2♦=7-10 unbal 5M OR 19+ unbal 5440 OR 19+ unbal 6m-4x, 6+m

2♥=7-10 unbal 4+M-4+M

2♠=8-12 unbal 5+♠

2N =8-12 unbal 5m-5m OR 19+ unbal 5m-5m

 

Maybe strong 5m-5m can be moved to 2D then;

For bal hands better laddering

1d=15-17 bal no 5M

1M=15-17 bal 5M

2c=18-19 bal 5M

2N=18-19 bal no 5M

 

Or 1M=15-19 bal 5M

1d=15-17 no 5M

2c=18-19 no 5M

1c=20+ bal

 

Second seemed better to me, except how bad it is to handle 15-17 in 1d ??

[borag]

1N=11-14 bal 5M possible I meant

[awm]

I've always thought that as far as opening structures go:

 

(1) It is nice to have a system where openings show length in some particular suit. This is a big winner in competitive auctions. Generally more length is better.

 

(2) It is nice to have a system where openings are limited in strength, especially if you plan to open pretty light. This helps in competition and also in unobstructed auctions.

 

(3) It is nice to have some two-level (and higher) openings available to show weak distributional hands and preempt the opponents.

 

The problem is that these ideas tend to conflict with each other. If we want to have limited openings, then we need some opening bid(s) to show the strong hands. If we populate our opening structure with too many constructive, descriptive calls we will run out of space for preempts.

 

The issue I have with this method is, it seems like there are an awful lot of bids that mean one of two different things (i.e. natural or some strong option that is not really natural). The 1♦ opening will have some trouble in competition. The multi-way preempts (2♦ etc) would do better if they had no strong option.

 

I'm just not sure why this is better than Polish Club.

[borag]

Thx for your ideas awm.

I thougth I explained my ideas with a few words;

 

-Seperate strong hand sets into two. (DONE)

a- Balanced / QBalanced which wants to learn more.

b-Unbalanced 1/2/3 suiter(7+,55,64,544) which wants to tell more.

Cause I believe option (a) takes tricks with points and might have 3 suits as trumps

and option (:P takes tricks with length and completion of suits.

I'm sure you can imagine hand set types.

 

-More (mixed) weak openings (DONE)

There are already lots of people who tries to play pure weak openings but not easy. So mixing them with distributional hands are ok (you can see many conv similar)

 

-Limited openings. (DONE)

This will be main area I will be happy with.

 

I never played Polish Club but played Nightmare, Precision, Moscito.

And regretted that whenever I had a distributional strong hand.

 

But I have seen Polish club in action with these hands and it sucked.

So I agree with the points you mentioned about your bidding approach.

 

But (+) I want to gain more, find better slams with bal/qbal hands;

give better decisions on distributional hands.

 

And if you just take a look at how much you gain in modern bridge with the weak 2 bids; they have lost their power.

 

We open them most of the time cause the same will be opened at other room :)

 

I can give lots of examples for strong distrubtional hands which will be lost if you put them in same shoes with bal/qbal hands within 1c.

 

But please tell me ideas how to seperate them.

[ASkolnick]

OK. Along the idea of that. I don't think you want to necessarily divide 1 suited hands out from the balance/quasi balance hands because both these hands can be described in one bid (X NT or X Suit). The volatility of these hands would not change based on partner's hand. If you have a good suit, the need for support is minimal, you want to know about values. The problem with strong 2 suited playing hands is without a fit, these hands can go kaput.

 

We play this with 4-5 card majors, and limited canape. Our 2 bids are opening strength via ZARS count but with 6 for major, (3145) possible for the minors.

 

A couple of ideas I have had,

 

1♣ 2 Suited type hands

 

Without interference, you can bid up the line lowest tolerance or transfer tolerance, the problem is you do open yourself up for preemption if one suit is not known. But you can play sort of suction/neg free bids.

 

So 1C-1S, X shows tolerance in all 3 other suits

NT Natural

2C either Diamonds to play or H&C tolerance and a decent hand (20 ZARS)

 

1♦ Single bid type hands either balanced over single suits.

 

I play what I considered a modified version of what people play over a Mexican 2D, just one level lower.

 

Or, if you really wanted to, you could play a light opening style so your opening is 8-14 and you can play 2C,2D,2H as 2 suited intermediate+ hands with the lower of the anchor suit.