Bidding Up the Ladder

[Califdude]

You hold these hands:

 

a. Kxxx-xx-KJxx-xxx

b. AKxx-xx-KJxx-xxx

c. Jxxx-xx-AKJx-xxx

d. Kxxx-x-AKJxx-xxx

e. AKxx-x-AJxxxx-xx

f. AJxx-xx-Jxxxx-xx

g. Axxxx-xx-Axxxx-x

h. AKQJ-xx-AKQJ-xxx

 

Partner opens 1C. What do you bid? Do you bid up the ladder, or do you skip over the diamonds and bid 1S?

 

Thank you for your replies. :D

[han]

Mostly depends on who I play with, though you must be pretty sick to respond 1S on e. I also think 1S on g is clearly right.

[Echognome]

I normally play a Walsh style, so my answers are framed around that.

 

a. 1♠

b. 1♠

c. 1♠

d. 1♦ (would invite showing spades over 1N and over 2♣ I would GF. 4=3=5=1 would have been tougher)

e. 1♦ (clear GF)

f. 1♠

g. 1♠

h. 1♠

[vuroth]

You hold these hands:

 

a. Kxxx-xx-KJxx-xxx

b. AKxx-xx-KJxx-xxx

c. Jxxx-xx-AKJx-xxx

d. Kxxx-x-AKJxx-xxx

e. AKxx-x-AJxxxx-xx

f. AJxx-xx-Jxxxx-xx

g. Axxxx-xx-Axxxx-x

h. AKQJ-xx-AKQJ-xxx

 

Partner opens 1C. What do you bid? Do you bid up the ladder, or do you skip over the diamonds and bid 1S?

 

Thank you for your replies. :D

I don't play Walsh. I'd prefer to have a much stronger understanding of SAYC, and its weaknesses, before I go plugging holes.

 

Other than g, they're all 1♦. On g, 1♣ 1♦ 2♣ leaves you horribly endplayed.

[awm]

Hand g is a clear 1♠ response. When holding two five card suits you bid the higher one first.

 

The rest of them, you could definitely respond 1♦ but it depends on style. Playing SAYC where it is normal to bid up-the-line, I would bid 1♦ on all but b (and the previously mentioned g).

 

Why? If I have longer diamonds than spades I always bid 1♦ in order to find the best fit (we could easily have a 5-3 diamond fit slam if partner has a big hand and we will never find it if I start 1♠). With 4-4 in the suits, it is "normal" to bid up the line but I think it is worth making some exceptions. I'd rate these exceptions as:

 

(1) If your diamonds are quite poor and spades are good, bidding the spades will help partner evaluate (in case he has a singleton in one of your suits). This would apply to example c if you reverse the suits.

 

(2) If your hand is good enough that you'd like to play 1NT or more opposite 12-14 balanced, but not so good that you have any real shot at a slam if partner is too weak to reverse, then it sometimes pays to bid the spades. If you have 6♦ you will find it when partner reverses into diamonds; if not you conceal the diamonds from the opposition and improve the odds that you right-side notrump in partner's hand. You might miss a good 5♦ game occasionally, but the vast majority of the time 3NT is a better game in any case. This applies only to hand b (hand a is too weak, hand c the spades are too lousy, hand h is too strong, the other hands have 5+♦).

[Gerben42]

a. 1♠

b. 1♠

c. 1♦

d. 1♦

e. 1♦

f. 1♦

g. 1♠

h. 1♦

 

Some comments: I think in a) there is no point bidding 1♦. If you play this style, partner should assume that 1♦ is either strong or shows 5 cards. With 1♠ it's close, but would still bid 1♠.

 

With c, the ♦ are too nice to not bid them.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

assuming you dont play Walsh, and my advice

for B/I players would be, not to play it, than the

question is only, do you skip diamonds or not,

if you are 4-4.

 

Hence d,e,f, and g are not relevant.

 

I would usally bid diamonds, but I am starting

to begin to take the suit quality into the

consideration, but all the examples, which are

left, have a diamond suit with reasonable quality.

 

The point to understand is, why one would skip

the diamond suit, what is the gain / the loss.

 

The gain: you are better positioned, if they

overcall, the loss, the shape description by

responder looses a little bit accurracy.

Since people like to intervene a lot these days,

the gain is considered to have a bigger impact

than the loss. But there is a loss.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

Lol I would bid 1S on them all, but then I play Mafia with regular pd.

[Finch]

Welcome to the pleasure of playing in an international environment!

The problem with something even as simple as this question, is that various bridge playing communities have different standards.

 

There are a few things that everyone playing a natural-based system (SA, 2/1, SEF, Acol etc) will agree on:

 

your hand g) With 5-5 in two suits, always respond in the higher suit (what you do on the next round depends on your strength and partner's rebid)

your hand e) With game forcing values, respond in your longer suit (so if you think this is a game force, respond 1D)

and (not shown)

With 5-spades and a 4-card minor, respond 1S

 

Once you get beyond these two points, it becomes a matter of style. Any beginner's bridge book you buy will tell you how to bid these hands, it's just they won't all say the same thing. If you all wanted to do was (e.g.) play standard French, we could give you a nice easy answer.

Like everyone else, I could just give you some rules, but I prefer to explain the logic behind it. The way to work out the right answer, is to think about opener's choice of opening bid, and opener's choice of rebid, bearing in mind that i) you would like to find any fit if you have one, but more importantly (ii) you would prefer not to miss a 4-4 major suit fit.

 

There are three styles of response:

1. "Up-the-line": with 4-4 or 4-5 in spades and diamonds, respond 1D

2. "Longest suit first": with 4-4 respond 1S, with 4-5 respond 1D

3. "Major first": respond 1S unless you have game forcing values

 

i) If you are playing a real 4-card major system, so a 1-minor opening is either an unbalanced hand or does not have a 4-card major, respond 1D. If partner does have a 4-card major he will bid it now, and you will not miss a fit.

ii) If you are playing a style where opener will always rebid a 4-card major if he has one, you can respond 1D. This (I believe) is the original standard american approach. Some SA texts say you should go for 'longest suit first'

iii) If you are playing a style where opener will always either open or rebid in NT with a balanced hand, you have to respond 1S, even with longer diamonds, unless you have a good hand, otherwise you might play in 1NT when you have a 4-4 spade fit available. This is the style called 'Walsh'.

 

You might point out a logical fallacy with option (3): if you have a strong enough hand to bid again over a 1NT rebid by opener, why not respond 1D and then look for a major suit fit over a 1NT rebid? This is a very good point, and so some people (including me) play that you respond 1S unless you have at least game-invitational values. However, that does seem to be a minority approach to life.

[pclayton]

Great job everyone. You are throwing around terms like Mafia and Walsh like you would Toyota or Big Mac. Please remember your audience.

 

Read Frances' post. She actually EXPLAINS the different styles and the benefits of playing the different approaches.

 

I particularly liked this from her:

Like everyone else, I could just give you some rules, but I prefer to explain the logic behind it.