Void in partners suit

[el mister]

Here are a couple of hands where I was void in partner's suit, and the results were not good. Sitting S, playing Acol with 2 different pick up partners. Comments on what went wrong? In particular, my 2NT bid in both cases seemed to make a nice platform for a misunderstanding. I meant it as a discouraging, let's just call it a day bid. Wasn't taken as such.

 

[hv=d=s&v=b&n=s108543hakq96d7c102&s=sj96hdk9542caj973]133|200|Scoring: IMP

P P 1♥ 1♠

2♣ P 2♥ X

2NT X 3♥ X

 

All pass[/hv]1 off for -200

 

[hv=d=s&v=b&n=s108543hakq96d7c102&s=sj96hdk9542caj973]133|200|Scoring: IMP

P P 1♥ 1♠

2♣ P 2♥ X

2NT X 3♥ X

 

All pass[/hv]4 off for -400

[Lobowolf]

2NT rebids by responder are generally not minimal rebids. A main rationale is that with a minimum opener opposite a minimum-range responder, you generally have about half of the points in the deck, making it awfully difficult to take 8 tricks to the opponents' 5. Depending on the auction, 2NT rebids are usually in the invitational range, but almost never weakness bids.

 

On the first hand, I'd've made a negative double at my first opportunity, giving partner the chance to bid either clubs or diamonds, which would increase the odds of finding a fit (though it wouldn't have helped given partner's actual hand). On both hands, I'd've passed on the given auction after 2♥. Of course, I'd've expected a 6th heart from partner, too. Still, 2NT risks partner bidding even more, and even with only 5 hearts between you, 2♥ could still be better than 2NT. The 9 and 6 of hearts can easily score via diamond ruffs in a heart contract, which would bring you up to 7 tricks if the A♦ is onside.

[han]

[hv=d=s&v=b&n=s108543hakq96d7c102&s=sj96hdk9542caj973]133|200|Scoring: IMP

P P 1♥ 1♠

2♣ P 2♥ X

2NT X 3♥ X

 

All pass[/hv]1 off for -200

North should open 1S, not 1H. With two 5-card suits, open the higher ranking. For the same reason, south should bid 2D, not 2C. Over 2C, north should pass, there is absolutely no reason to bid 2H, partner is a passed hand. South should pass 2H, partner has rebid hearts, it is not your responsibility. North bid hearts 3 times, I don't have any words for this!!!

 

Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ KQ ♥ [space] K109854 ♦ 106 ♣ K74 ♠ AJ42 ♥ [space] ♦ Q93 ♣ 1098532

- 1♥ P 1♠ P 2♥ P 2[NT] P 3NT P P X 4♥ P P P

4 off for -400

 

Here the auction should just be 1H-1S-2H pass. You are not strong enough to look for game and there is no reason to expect to get to a better partscore.

 

I don't understand 3NT by north either.

[Trumpace]

One common mistake IMO, beg/int make is to immediately bid NT with a void in partner's suit, with the reasoning that "we have all suits covered" and it might be safer to play in NT. Think about how the hands will play in NT vs the trump contract.

 

 

On Hand 1) I think your partner should have passed 2♣ and you should pass 2♥.

 

On Hand 2) You should pass 2♥.

 

Bidding NT on both the above hands really does not gain any safety as compared to playing a 6-0 trump fit (IMO).

 

If both are minimum and discover you are in a misfit, it pays to get out early rather than trying to find a safe spot.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

you never bid 2NT (or 3NT) because of fear, 2NT is

always a forward going move.

Hence you should pass.

 

An important point to understand is, that NT contracts

require as much fit as trump contracts.

 

Assume for one second one player has AKQ432, the

other a void.

 

Assuming the suit is trumps, you will make on average

4 or 5 tricks, and you need no outside entry to establish

the suit.

Assuming you play NT, you will also make on average

4 or 5 tricks, but quite often, you need two outside entries

to establish the suit and to make the 4th trick.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[vuroth]

I think one of the key concepts is the idea of limiting your hand as soon as possible.

 

When you answer once, I assume you have at least 6 points. If you bid again, I'll start to think that you have at least 9-10 points.

 

Similarly, if you bid 3NT after I've only shown 10 points, I'm going to assume you have 16 or more. (26 points for game in NT/majors).

 

I think in both of these auctions, both you and your partner missed opportunities to pass and limit your hands. Granted, pass may have left you in an uncomfortable contract, but:

 

A ) in duplicate, maybe EVERYONE is in the same, uncomfortable contract

B ) you'll reap the rewards of passing these weak misfits by knowing that, when partner DOES bid on, she'll have more than a minimum

 

0.02

 

V

[han]

When you answer once, I assume you have at least 6 points. If you bid again, I'll start to think that you have at least 9-10 points.

 

This depends of course very much on the auction. For example:

 

1C - 1H

1S - 2H

 

does not show any more points, it does show more hearts.

 

The same is true for 1C-1H-1S-1NT or 1C-1H-1S-2C, neither of these auctions shows extra values.

 

Of course, your 6+ points comment only applies to 1-level responses, you need more points for bidding a new suit at the 2-level.

[neilkaz]

A lot of bids I don't care for here by both players.

 

Hand 1) With the huge difference in suit quality opposite a passed PD I don't mind the 1♥ opening. It is certainly natural to open 1♠ and rebid 2♥ but opener has only 9 HCP, certainly wants a ♥ lead, doesn't want a preference back to 2♠ on 2 small, and can pass PD's response of 2♣.

 

Hand1) I don't care at all for 2♣ and much prefer a neg X which can also lead to 1NT. Opener should pass 2♣ with two card support. Responders pull of 2♥x to 2NT is dubious, but openers rebid to 3♥ when the two level was doubled is sickening. Lucky to only be -1.

 

Hand 2) This aceless 11 count with a naked KQ is a real minimum. Therefore the raise of 2NT to 3NT is awful to be polite. Responder is no where near a 2NT invite with a missfit 7 count,

[jdonn]

I think han's first post said it all well.

[kenrexford]

How in the world did 3♥X go off only one?!?!?

[1eyedjack]

Leaving aside any flaws in the preceding auction, the 2N as a "let's get out of here" message is more understandable on the first auction than the second.

 

On auction 1, if you have a hand that expects to make 2N and is interested in 3N (ie the "constructive" interpretation of 2N) then it may be right to pass (or even redouble) and either play in 2H doubled into game or double the opponents when they pull it. Even if encouraging, 2N would not be read as forcing, and electing to play in a possible partscore when you might have had a lucrative penalty or stayed doubled into game is a bit unappetising. Likewise, 3N may be a speculative spot compared with the certainty of a penalty.

 

A problem with 2N "let's get out of here" is that you fully expect to be doubled in that contract as well, which the opponents will certainly let you stew in, whereas if you pass the original double there is a fair chance that next hand will rescue you by bidding even if the contract was doomed. If you are going to play 2N as some wriggle here then you probably need to be showing some specific distribution and not in anticipation of stopping in 2N but rather in order to optimally place your final 3-suit-doubled resting place.

[jtfanclub]

How in the world did 3♥X go off only one?!?!?

AKQ of spades, spade ruffed with the natural trump trick, diamond return.

 

Now declarer uses the king of diamonds to get rid of his losing club, and the remaining trumps split 3-3.

[kenrexford]

How in the world did 3♥X go off only one?!?!?

AKQ of spades, spade ruffed with the natural trump trick, diamond return.

 

Now declarer uses the king of diamonds to get rid of his losing club, and the remaining trumps split 3-3.

That line looks initially good, except that if Declarer's LHO has the diamond Ace, he can just play a fifth spade after winning the diamond Ace for the second down trick.

 

So, I suppose the diamond Ace must be with RHO, who must for some reason cash it rather than leading a club. It therefore seems like you still need something terribly wrong to happen.