Jacoby 2NT Question

[vuroth]

Does bidding Jacoby 2NT, i.e.

1♠ - 2NT

 

deny a singleton or void? Or are there times when you would bid Jacoby 2NT with a shot offsuit?

 

Asked another way, with a GF hand with a singleton or void, do you always use splinter?

[TylerE]

The way I usually play it is that a splinter 'surrounds' the J2NT range..either like 10-12 (but treated as GF due to texture, shape, etc) or 16+, perpared to bid again over 4M.

[rbforster]

I think it's fine to bid 2NT with a very strong hand. You'll be able to start cue bidding lower than if you splinter, and besides, if you splinter and have a huge hand, what are the odds partner will find a cue for you instead of just (trying to) sign off.

[pclayton]

2N definitely does not deny shortness.

 

Splinters are as Tyler describes, although I'm hesitant to label them with a HCP range for the upper limit.

[A2003]

According to Mike Lawrence, "CONVENTIONS" Program,

 

Balanced hand, four or more trumps and game forcing values, No singleton or void.

If singleton or void, use splinter bids.

 

1♠ - P- 2NT - P

Opener's responses:

3♣, 3♦, 3♥ singleton

3♠ very good opening hand, 17HCP

3NT Good balanced hand, 15-16HCP. Follow up 4♣=cue-bid etc.,

4♣, 4♦, 4♥ VOID ....…....... [some play here 5 card suit]

4♠ Lousy balanced opening hand.

[kenrexford]

You should make your decision of how to proceed (Jacoby 2NT, Splinter, of 2/1 bid) by assessing how well the likely auctions will cater to your hand or to your need to hear about partner's hand, depending on what you think is tactically most important.

 

So, I think having a stiff or void and bidding Jacoby 2NT is possible.

[cherdano]

The thing is that splinters should be well-defined bids. 10-12 (useful) hcp is the typical range, and will allow partner to make a good educated guess. (Of course ti could also be superstrong where you will be forcing to the 5-level no matter what.)

 

If a hand with shortness is unsuitable for that and for a 2/1, then Jacoby 2NT is the best option.

[Quantumcat]

Yeah I thought a jacoby2n denied shortness, because you use it when you want to hear about opener's shortness, then evaluate your hand accordingly. Splinter's tell opener about your shortness so he can evaluate his hand.

[jdonn]

2NT doesn't deny shortness, because it might be the best bid on a hand outside the range for a splinter bid.

[Quantumcat]

What is the range for a splinter? I thought just any hand that can force to game, or stronger.

[han]

Does not deny shortness.

[jdonn]

What is the range for a splinter? I thought just any hand that can force to game, or stronger.

The is problematic since the splinter bid takes up so much room. It is generally limited to either a minimum game force, or a hand so good that it can bid on if partner signs off over the splinter. The wide range between those two hand types should generally not splinter.

[vuroth]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s7hkqt9dak83cq543]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Partner opens 1♥[/hv]

 

For what it's worth, this is the hand that caused the question, and I bid 2NT on it.

 

Out of the 16 hands, I was the only one. The vast majority chose splinters.

[Walddk]

What is the range for a splinter? I thought just any hand that can force to game, or stronger.

The is problematic since the splinter bid takes up so much room. It is generally limited to either a minimum game force, or a hand so good that it can bid on if partner signs off over the splinter. The wide range between those two hand types should generally not splinter.

What he said. 9-11 or 18+ (will bid again) for a splinter, the rest through 2NT, shorness or not. So with vuroth's hand: 2NT.

 

Roland

[helene_t]

What is the range for a splinter? I thought just any hand that can force to game, or stronger.

No, when you splinter you need to know what to do after opener signs off. If you are too strong to respect the sign-off but too weak to insist on slam (after checking keycards), you should start with Jacoby 2NT instead of the splinter.

 

Also, with a stiff A or K (or Q?), IMHO J2NT is better than a splinter.

[ASkolnick]

While I do agree the difference between Jacoby 2N and splinters is "asking" or "telling", I do think that the tendency of Jacoby 2N should be to have a balanced hand.

If you are holding an honor in your stiff, it then becomes "semi-balanced"

 

Here is the problem in standard jacoby with your hand.

 

xxx

AJxxx

QJ

KJx

 

1H-2N-4H

 

Do you take a call above 4H with the call below? Doubtful, since if I flip- flopped the spades and the clubs, the values would be in question.

 

The real problem isn't really Jacoby though, it is the response to Jacoby which seems to take up the same amount of room as jumping with the splinter.

[ArtK78]

Whether to splinter or to Jacoby is really a question of captaincy.

 

If you think that partner is likely to be in a better position to assess the prospects of the hand if you give a description of your hand, then splinter.

 

If you think that you are in a better position to assess the prospects of the hand if you get information from partner, then Jacoby.

 

On the hand that you gave, I believe that Jacoby is the way to go. If partner tells you that he has a singleton club, then you may have a slam opposite two aces. If he does not have a singleton club, you will need much more. But you are likely to be in a better position to get the information that you need to make a decision than partner is likely to be in if you splinter.

 

As was pointed out by ASkolnick, Jacoby will not always work out better than a splinter bid. If partner has 3 or 4 low spades (or Axx or Axxx of spades) and no minor suit shortness, the spade splinter may work out better.

[P_Marlowe]

Simple answer: No.

 

You bid the splinter, if you have no problem

after partner signs of, you know, that

you pass, or you know, that you bid on.

 

The splinter should paint a very precise pricture,

and not only with ragards to shape, but also with

regards to strength.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s7hkqt9dak83cq543]133|100|Scoring: IMP

Partner opens 1♥[/hv]

 

For what it's worth, this is the hand that caused the question, and I bid 2NT on it.

 

Out of the 16 hands, I was the only one.  The vast majority chose splinters.

The hand is a little bit too strong for a splinter,

but not much, and you still have a lot of room

between 3S and 4H, so the splinter will work

quite often.

 

Also you have honors in each of the outstanding

suits, so the picture you are painting fits.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[vuroth]

Thanks, guys. I'm glad to see that this is an area worthy of discussion.

 

Part 3, if I may.

 

What would you do if partner bid 3NT over Jacoby 2NT? 4♦? 4♥? Something else?

 

This decision was the main reason I ended up looking at all the other hands (though I often do anyways). Rather than answer this question, looking at all the splinters gave me another question for my troubles.

 

:blink:

 

Thanks.

 

V

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

4D, a cue, denying a cue in clubs.

 

3NT showes 15-17 and a semi. bal. hand,

hence the partnership as 29-31 HCP and

a 9 card fit, hence you should make a move

toward slam, but not more.

 

If partner bids 4H, you have an easy pass,

since you told partner, that you have slam

interest, that you have a diamond control

and that you lack a club control.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe