Another judgment call

[hrothgar]

Here's another hand from Sunday

 

White on Red

Two passes to you

 

You hold

 

S xx

H QJ87

D xxx

C KQT9

 

What's your plan?

[TylerE]

Pass...and I open almost anything in 3rd with a 5 card suit.

[rogerclee]

I am very satisfied with my results when I don't open balanced 8-counts with no long suit.

[gnasher]

I used to open a weak two on this sort of hand, but I've grown out of it.

[hrothgar]

I used to open a weak two on this sort of hand, but I've grown out of it.

Same here

[han]

I would never open a weak 2 on this, it is just too random (with -EV). If I would do anything it would be to open 1C and pass whatever partner bids. That way at least I get my lead director in. And we'd still be in the auction, making life difficult for the opponents.

 

I would probably pass though, sorry.

[TimG]

I used to open a weak two on this sort of hand, but I've grown out of it.

Same here

In Richard's case, it might be better to say he has "graduated" rather than "grown out of".

[pclayton]

Pass. Happily I might add.

 

When I open a crappy hand in 3rd, there's a purpose to the bid.

 

Some possible hops would be:

 

1. Getting in a lead director

 

2. Taking up space

 

3. Making it easier for our side to compete later.

 

Opening 1♥ accomplishes #2 (to a degree). Opening 1♣ gets us #1 but fails miserably at 2 and 3.

 

Sometimes winning bridge means 'walking down the hill'.

[han]

Phil, I think you underestimate the possible disruptive nature of a 1C opening. Accurate bidding is much harder in almost any competitive auction than in almost any constructive auction.

 

If there weren't any negatives (like getting nailed in silly contracts or partner not being able to trust any of your 3rd seat openings) then I'd say that passing would miss out on a big opportunity. As it is I think the negatives probably outweigh the positives but at matchpoints (was it?), white against red with a good lead director, it sure is tempting to get in there and create some action.

[TimG]

2. Taking up space

You're on the right track.

[han]

1C does potentially take up space, partner will very often bid. It's really an illusion that 1C doesn't make it harder for the opponents. For one thing, an overcall over 1C is (for most pairs) much wider ranging than an opening bid. For another, partner will likely bid at his next turn. If so, the auction will become more complicated, and we already know that our side doesn't have game. If partner can bid 2C, cuebid or bid 3C, that would take up space. If LHO doesn't have a good bid over 1C and decides to pass, he or she will have a harder time describing his hand a round later.

 

The argument that 1C doesn't do damage is similar to the idea that a natural 1M overcall over a precision 1C opening isn't useful, or that a natural 2D opening isn't a difficult preempt to deal with. Any of those competitive auctions tends to be tougher for the opponents than if you pass. And if partner can raise, it will probably be much tougher.

 

I'll shut up now.

[pclayton]

1C does potentially take up space, partner will very often bid. It's really an illusion that 1C doesn't make it harder for the opponents. For one thing, an overcall over 1C is (for most pairs) much wider ranging than an opening bid. For another, partner will likely bid at his next turn. If so, the auction will become more complicated, and we already know that our side doesn't have game. If partner can bid 2C, cuebid or bid 3C, that would take up space. If LHO doesn't have a good bid over 1C and decides to pass, he or she will have a harder time describing his hand a round later.

 

The argument that 1C doesn't do damage is similar to the idea that a natural 1M overcall over a precision 1C opening isn't useful, or that a natural 2D opening isn't a difficult preempt to deal with. Any of those competitive auctions tends to be tougher for the opponents than if you pass. And if partner can raise, it will probably be much tougher.

 

I'll shut up now.

Han I am well aware that a 1♣ opening may lead to a potentially awkward auction by the opponents. If they overcall, they may have a more difficult auction because of the wide range, but they also have cuebids and a takeout double available. I realize that good things happen when we bid in this position, but one has to have limits. Switch the round suits and I would open 1♥. I'm just not comfortable open this, passing pard's 1♠, and having pard compete to 2♠ on his own. When I open a minor, partner has a right to play me for a better hand.

 

You completely ignore the problems partner will face. How high is he to compete? What should be doubling?

 

You also ignore the information that you are giving your opponents when you open the bidding.

[gnasher]

You completely ignore the problems partner will face. How high is he to compete? What should be doubling?

Han hasn't ignored these. In fact, he said that the disadvantages of 1♣ include "getting nailed in silly contracts" and "partner not being able to trust any of your 3rd seat openings", and that these were sufficient to outweigh the advantages.

[whereagles]

1♣ as a lead-director is mah bid.

 

Hopefully, pard won't be expecting the world for this bid.

[jdonn]

If I bid, it would certainly be 1♣ for the lead. I don't want to do it here since I think a passout is too likely and I don't want to prevent that. But I don't mind it.

[cherdano]

I used to open a weak two on this sort of hand, but I've grown out of it.

Same here

In Richard's case, it might be better to say he has "graduated" rather than "grown out of".

LOL

[kenrexford]

1♣

[effervesce]

At MPs 1♣ for me. Don't want partner to blow a trick on the lead.

[joker_gib]

My plan is simple : pass :P

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

We may get another chance.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[dake50]

I try 1NT.

[andy_h]

pass

[OleBerg]

What a wonderfull hand, so many possebileties.

 

In a natural system 1♣, 3♣ and 2♥ spring to mind. Depending on partner, opponents and state of the match I'll choose accordingly. (If I have a big lead, I might find an off-beat pass.)

 

In a strong club system 2♣ is a wtp.

[rogerclee]

Is everybody aware that this is matchpoints? Is everybody aware that you have eight points and no reason to believe that the opponents have a game of any kind?? Is everybody aware that if you open, partner, at this form of scoring, may be very inclined to make a bad penalty double, or a competitive/card-showing double that puts you in an awful position, or simply over-compete and go for a number? Is everybody aware that if you open this kind of hand routinely, you are sacrificing the integrity of your third-seat opener for almost nothing in return (a club lead, which may not even be right)? Or that you are taking a random -EV swing against the field?

[effervesce]

Is everybody aware that this is matchpoints? Is everybody aware that you have eight points and no reason to believe that the opponents have a game of any kind?? Is everybody aware that if you open, partner, at this form of scoring, may be very inclined to make a bad penalty double, or a competitive/card-showing double that puts you in an awful position, or simply over-compete and go for a number? Is everybody aware that if you open this kind of hand routinely, you are sacrificing the integrity of your third-seat opener for almost nothing in return (a club lead, which may not even be right)? Or that you are taking a random -EV swing against the field?

The whole point is that it is matchpoints. If it was IMPs or anything else, pass is obvious, but at MPs bidding for the lead is an important strategy.

 

Who cares if the opps have no game of any kind? If they make 2♠ + 1 because partner chose to lead a diamond (for example), instead of 2♠ =, then that is a bad MP score.

 

Are you aware that at favorable vul partner won't (shouldnt) take your 1♣ opening too seriously? That the opponents may play you for all the points, and thus misguess? Yes, we know the potential downsides you are mentioning. But nobody wins a pairs event by going for averages.