Simple judgement call

[hrothgar]

This one generated a bit of discussion at the bar last night

 

You're playing KS with a 21-22 HCP 2NT opening

 

You get dealt the following:

 

♠ AK543

♥ AT6

♦ AT7

♣ AQ

 

What do you open?

[Gerben42]

Is this too good for 21-22? I would just open 2NT.

[rogerclee]

2♣ then 2NT. This hand just has too much playing strength opposite a slam try in one of the red suits.

[655321]

I probably open 2♣, but I don't feel that strongly about it, and don't mind 2NT.

[skjaeran]

I'll upgrade this to 23 because of all the controls, the fifth spade and the red tens. It's close though, with the empty spade suit.

[OleBerg]

Depends a little on what continuations you play on 2♣.

 

I'll take the liberty of a semi-hijack.

 

If you play 2♦ as a waiting bid, made with many hands, it is easy to incooperate all balanced hands with 5-card majors, in the sequences:

 

2♣-2♦

2♥/2♠

 

Responder has many ways of showing different degrees of support, and it makes the evaluation of the hand easier.

 

 

If I have to start showing a balanced hand, 21-22 is a wtp.

 

If the question is whether to get to game, we do not have anything more than maximum, trick-wise. If slam is the question, I will most likely get another chance to put the pedal to the metal.

[Free]

2NT wtp? Simple indeed :huh:

[gwnn]

Partner will (well, should) shoot to game with a King or so, which sounds accurate, 2NT for me, of course if partner looks for slam I will be very cooperative. I will try the infamous 3 card superaccept if cho has hearts.

[jdonn]

I think upgrading by more than one point on a hand that's not utterly unusual is fairly ridiculous.

[Edmunte1]

2NT, not time for an upgrade. I agree that we have a number of controls bigger than expected, and we have a 5 card suit but we have too many points in club shortage and no intermediattes in the long suit.

[pclayton]

2N is obvious.

 

Four aces, two tens, and a nice 5 card suit. That's useful.

 

This hand has plenty of negatives too, particularly the doubleton AQ and no real spots beyond those tens.

 

By the way, why would you play a 21-22 in a KS structure? Do you like a 3 point range for 1m-1x-2N? I sure don't.

[han]

I also never upgrade 2 points (unless I have a good 6-card suit). However, if find clee's argument compelling. It is true that opening 2NT vs 2C..2NT differs mostly on slam hands. Usually partner will go to game at least anyway oppposite a 2NT opening (although if partner raises to 3NT on nothing but a red queen then you wouldn't be in a very good spot).

 

If partner has a 1-suiter then 2C.. 2NT would probably work better, you do have great playing strength no matter what partner's suit is. If partner has a balanced hand with a doubleton spade then 2C..2NT is more likely to get you too high though.

 

So I wouldn't upgrade this hand by two points but I don't think it is far off to do so, and certainly not ridiculous.

[han]

This hand has plenty of negatives too, particularly the doubleton AQ and no real spots beyond those tens.

Talking about bad hand evaluation, a friend of mine opened 2NT yesterday on Ax Qx AKx AKJxxx, playing 20-21.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

2NT is certainly down the road, especially if you are

able to locate the 5 card spade suit.

 

You should still be able to convey the control richness

of the hand in the later auction.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[lilboyman]

In an article on bridgeguys

 

homepage.mac.com/bridgeguys/pdf/KSupdated1991.pdf

 

Kaplan writes on page 17:

 

"Strong Opening Bids

 

D – STRONG OPENING BIDS

 

For very strong balanced hand, these opening bids:

 

2 NT 20-21 points (not a "bad 20" - too many queens, honors in short suits; treat a "bad 22" as 21), balanced, includes 5-3-3-2 even with 5-card major if no other flaw, but not more eccentric pattern.

 

2 C 22 points up. First rebid to be in notrump. If response is 2 D, 2 NT=23, 24, 3 NT=more; over other responses, notrump rebid is unlimited."

 

It appears that Kaplan would recommend 2NT for these cards.

 

Would you open 1 S and jump to 2NT with this hand if it were onlly 20 HCP?

[TimG]

♠ AK543

♥ AT6

♦ AT7

♣ AQ

 

♠ T

♥ KQ7

♦ KQ9832

♣ 632

 

Since Richard is likely sleeping now and busy tomorrow, I'll take the liberty of revealing the result. We reached 7♦ after Richard opened 2♣ and I responded 3♦ (we do not play the KS control type responses to 2♣). This was in the District 25 NAP -- of the 26 times this was played in Flights A & B, 7♦ was bid and made only twice (spades were not 4-3, but the ♣K was onside) and one pair went down in something.

 

I'm curious how you would handle the auction after a 2N opening.

 

As to why we play 21-22 2NT: I do not know. When Richard was giving this hand to someone, they asked our 2NT range and I said "20-21". Richard said I was wrong, and sure enough, our card says 21-22. I'm sure that was my mistake, Richard copied his CC from mine before the event started.

[pclayton]

♠ AK543

♥ AT6

♦ AT7

♣ AQ

 

♠ T

♥ KQ7

♦ KQ9832

♣ 632

 

Since Richard is likely sleeping now and busy tomorrow, I'll take the liberty of revealing the result. We reached 7♦ after Richard opened 2♣ and I responded 3♦ (we do not play the KS control type responses to 2♣). This was in the District 25 NAP -- of the 26 times this was played in Flights A & B, 7♦ was bid and made only twice (spades were not 4-3, but the ♣K was onside) and one pair went down in something.

 

I'm curious how you would handle the auction after a 2N opening.

 

As to why we play 21-22 2NT: I do not know. When Richard was giving this hand to someone, they asked our 2NT range and I said "20-21". Richard said I was wrong, and sure enough, our card says 21-22. I'm sure that was my mistake, Richard copied his CC from mine before the event started.

2N - 3♠

3N - 4♦

4♥ - 4♠

4N - 5♣

5♥ - 5N

6♣ - 6♥

7♦

 

Seems like a reasonable auction.

 

I think most of you know what these calls are so i won't bother to explain them.

[han]

Agree with Phil's auction.

[gnasher]

2NT  4♠  (single-suited slam try in diamonds)

5♣   5♥

5NT  6♦   (RKCB / 1)

6♥   6NT   (Queen ask / yes)

7♦

 

I might not bother with the queen ask.

[gnasher]

I think most of you know what these calls are so i won't bother to explain them.

I'm surprised that methods over 2NT in your part of the world are so uniform that everyone knows what this sequence means without explanation.

 

Anyway, can you show pity on a poor ignorant foreigner and tell me what it all means?

[pclayton]

I think most of you know what these calls are so i won't bother to explain them.

I'm surprised that methods over 2NT in your part of the world are so uniform that everyone knows what this sequence means without explanation.

 

Anyway, can you show pity on a poor ignorant foreigner and tell me what it all means?

Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, and bidding systems too!

 

3♠ - puppet to 3N

4♦ - single suited slam try

4♥ - cue agreeing hearts

4♠ - cue

4N / 5♣ / 5♥ - 1430

5N - ♦Q + a King we 'can't] show (hearts)

6♣ - last train

6♥ - card there; good enough for 6N and passing 6[di[

[Finch]

7♦ was bid and made only twice (spades were not 4-3, but the ♣K was onside) and one pair went down in something.

I assume they went down in 7D. I assume you would have done too on a club lead.

 

I'm not certain 7D is with the MP odds played by the long diamond hand. IF you are going to get a club lead - it needs spades 4-3 and diamonds not 4-0 the wrong way (count those entries!) or a black suit squeeze if diamonds are 4-0 the wrong way. Obviously it's much better if you aren't going to get a club lead, but now that depends on the auction and the opening leader's hand.

 

At pairs, if I can't play 7D by the strong hand I think I'd rather be in 6NT.

[han]

Really Frances?

 

It seems that 7C is slightly better than 50% on a club lead and much better than that on any other lead. Given that I expect the whole field to be in slam I would want to be in 7D from the wrong side rather than 6NT. Of course, I'd prefer to be in 7D from the right side!

[Finch]

Really Frances?

 

It seems that 7C is slightly better than 50% on a club lead and much better than that on any other lead. Given that I expect the whole field to be in slam I would want to be in 7D from the wrong side rather than 6NT. Of course, I'd prefer to be in 7D from the right side!

I'd be interested to know what the other 23 contracts were - in particular how many were in 6NT and how many in 6D. That is, do you want to be in a 60% (let's say) 7D contract? How about a 70% one? Or an 80% one? (this one is somewhere between 60% and 80% depending on the chance of a club lead)

 

Again, this depends on the auction, but if you know you are getting a club lead, I wonder if you would actually rather play in 7NT than 7D. Given that Tim didn't get a club lead, the odds are obviously different to the theoretical ones.

 

I don't know what the field in a NAP is like (what's a NAP?) but there are very few clubs I know of where I would expect the whole field to be in slam. Someone is always going to bid 2NT (20-22) P 3NT (got to be in NT at pairs).

[han]

Yes, obviously it depends on the field and maybe I overestimated the part of the field that will be in slam.

 

NAP is national american pairs (I think), some national pair game in the US for which you have to qualify locally. The strength of the field depends on the flight you play in (C, B, A, open), as well as the round (unit, district, national finals, which I think are in the spring).

 

Winning locally means you get some money to go to the national championship so I think Richard mentioned it to show that he wanted to win this game, rather than give an indication of the strength of the field.