A thought for the weekend – and so so true …………..

[sceptic]

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: knowing when to come in out of the rain; why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.

 

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

 

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an Elastoplast to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

 

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

 

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents,Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim.

 

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

[y66]

Alas, poor fellow. I once knew him well.

[pclayton]

I believe that Common Sense was born during the great depression and raised during the 2nd world war. Something to think about.

[mikeh]

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: knowing when to come in out of the rain; why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.

 

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

 

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an Elastoplast to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

 

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

 

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents,Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim.

 

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

If, by common sense, you maen unthinking repetition of trite sayings, and jumping on popular bandwagons, then I only wish common sense were in fact dead.

 

Much of what you wrote, as examples of the lack of common sense, is flat out ill-informed and fundamentally wrong. The coffee case is a classic example of media manipulation. As someone who actuall read the details of the case, I have explained it to a number of people who cite it to me as an illustration of the absurdity of the US tort system, and everybody changes their mind (or tells me that they do) once they learn the true facts.

[Al_U_Card]

Sense is anything but common as its lack, for some time now, will bear witness.

[kenberg]

By coincidence, I was just thinking of the coffee case the other day. I stopped at one of these places where they give you a cup and you then select an urn and get the coffee yourself. The first two urns I tried were empty but then a newly brewed one arrived. I went up to it and pressed the button and promptly got unusually hot coffee on my hands. Call my lawyer, I'll be rich. No.

 

I did get a bit of a burn but really my thought was that I should apologize for my carelessness in not getting the cup properly positioned since some coffee got on the floor as well.

 

Mike is right that I don't know the details of the coffee case. I do think though that we have, as a society, become more inclined to expect to be protected from the consequences of our own carelessness and stupidity. This thinking sometimes affects me too. I bought some rather lethal bug spray recently that had various warnings on the container. Basically it recommended that you not actually use the stuff. But then, I thought, surely they couldn't sell this product if it was really dangerous. Well, maybe, maybe not. I used it and I am still alive. Actually so are a lot of the bugs.

 

I have been lucky to get through life (so far so good) with a minimum of legal hassle. More luck than anything of course, but it doesn't hurt that I do try to position myself and the cup properly before pouring or drinking coffee.

[EricK]

In this modern age where we are constantly bombarded with more and more bits of information each of which, in effect, is vying for our attention, there is one bit of knowledge which is invaluable if you are interested in separating truth from falsehood:

 

Any bit of information which seems designed to elicit outrage in the recipient is almost certainly at best a biased or "spun" version of the truth, and at worst an outright lie.

 

And a corrolary is that the more distant and anonymous the originator of the information, the more likely it is to be false. So for example, if somebody tells you how outrageously badly they were treated by a shop assistant, it is likely that they have exaggerated events slightly; if you read a headline in a newspaper that says a certain additive doubles the risk of cancer, they will have omitted to tell you that data was gathered from experiments on mice, it is based on feeding them huge quantities of the additive, it is linked to a single type of cancer, and doubling the chances of this type of cancer in humans would take it from 1 in a million to 2 in a million; and finally, if you receive a many-times-forwarded e-mail which claims that the leader of one of the main political parties is a terrorist sympathiser, or that a local council has banned the use of the word "blackboard" for fear of offending minorities, or that KFC changed had to change its name from Kentucky Fried Chicken because they don't actually use chicken in any of their meals etc then that e-mail won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

[helene_t]

OK now I have read the actual facts about the coffee case and I still think it's absurd. Some compensation might have been reasonable but the $2.7 mio punitive damages ... what a silly concept.

 

More generally I agree with Mike, though. I don't think common sense is dead but it might be a good thing if it was.

 

BTW it's not true that common sense was born under the depression and raised under WW II. It was probably born with the first nervous systems some 400 mio years ago (or whatever) and matured by the cro-magnons.

[sceptic]

nice of you to respond to one of my posts with your usual pompous attitude Mike

[naresh301]

The coffee case is a classic example of media manipulation. As someone who actuall read the details of the case, I have explained it to a number of people who cite it to me as an illustration of the absurdity of the US tort system, and everybody changes their mind (or tells me that they do) once they learn the true facts.

Are the details of the case significantly different from Helene's link? I would think the fault lied with the person who tried to open the lid of a styrofoam cup while balancing it between her knees; and not the fact that the coffee was a few degrees hotter. Sorry, but I don't see why she should get any compensation.

 

I strongly agree with the rest of the post. If we lived by "common sense", we would be shooting (clubbing?) suspected burglars to death, and beating up our children to discipline them.

[cherdano]

Much of what you wrote, as examples of the lack of common sense, is flat out ill-informed and fundamentally wrong. The coffee case is a classic example of media manipulation. As someone who actuall read the details of the case, I have explained it to a number of people who cite it to me as an illustration of the absurdity of the US tort system, and everybody changes their mind (or tells me that they do) once they learn the true facts.

So does this prove that

1. you are at least as good a lawyer as the one who argued the case at the time, or

2. whoever you talk to would do as badly as a judge as the original one?

:)

[kenberg]

The coffee that burned me the other day was quite hot. Hot enough that I really couldn't drink it for about ten minutes or more after I got it. It certainly is true that I wouldn't want it on my clothes next to my skin. It was hotter than I expect coffee to be.

 

All I can say is that it does not really seem to me that it was the coffee shops fault that I burned myself with their coffee. I probably won't go there again, but the reason is that the coffee was too hot to drink and not all that good when it cooled down.

 

On the other hand, McDonald's argument that they thought customers were planning to bring the coffee home before drinking it doesn't pass the laugh test. In this case the lady was not drinking coffee while driving, but many do including myself.

 

It sounds to me as if the McDonald's lawyers and representatives came across as arrogant types who were asking the jury to believe the unbelievable, that McDonald's had no idea people drank the coffee while they were still in their cars, and decided to hit them for it.

 

Common sense means different things to different people. For example, I would say that it is common sense that of you speak to the jury as if you think they are idiots who will believe anything you say then the jury might make you regret this.

[mikeh]

nice of you to respond to one of my posts with your usual pompous attitude Mike

Does this mean I am not on your Christmas card list?

 

:)

[sceptic]

nice of you to respond to one of my posts with your usual pompous attitude Mike

Does this mean I am not on your Christmas card list?

 

:)

No, I will send you a christmas card if you like, but I am pleased that you are talking to me actually and to have some one so esteemed responding to one of my posts, I am suprised that you are not billing me "$2,000 very overpriced dollars for your time:)

[Al_U_Card]

Since I have to urinate anyway.... :rolleyes:

 

One man's pompous is another man's definitive. ;)

 

Getting to know and appreciate where we all are "coming from" and knowing that we can take (as little or as much) of what was offered in whatever way suits us, it is only necessary that we look into how we respond (and feel about it) to better understand ourselves.

 

That is my stentorious and haughty best shot, guys. B)

 

Someone who enjoys both of your "positions" on just about everything. :D

[kenberg]

Here is a common sense issue of mine:

 

Suppose that the federal government decides that no child should be left behind. In furtherance of this objective, it encourages states to make sure that every child can pass an algebra exam in order to graduate from high school. Principles, teachers, and school districts will be punished severely if this does not happen. What would you expect to take place?

 

My common sense suggests that this will lead to states designing an exam that is called an algebra exam but also one that has very little connection with algebra.

 

We have such an exam in Maryland. Since there is still substantial worry that this spring, the first year that the graduation requirement will be enforced, will still see many students unable to handle the exam and therefore unable to graduate, it has been decided that the students can instead do a project to demonstrate their competence in algebra. Since they have already rather substantially demonstrated their incompetence, I'm not sure how this will work. Well, actually I am sure how this will work.

 

i understand that some states will be requiring algebra II for HS graduation. Those states must have really smart students. I'm impressed.

 

 

I do think that my high school days (1952-1956) used greater common sense in this regard. Some students took algebra, some didn't, they were all taught something useful.

[ASkolnick]

I read the facts and as for the coffee case, I think the argument stops at

 

She put the hot cofee between her lap. What do we know about hot coffee? Oh, I know. It's HOT!

 

Because of things like this, every cup now has a warning which says Hot coffee is Hot.

Or, I have an Foldable Exersaucer (This is a child entertainment toy for kids just first standing which folds together, and there is a warning which states "Do not fold while child is inside")

 

As for the Child Left Behind Act, in principle it is a good idea. It is trying to establish minimum standards for a public school, but I am not sure it necessarily does that. One of two things rates to happen:

 

1) Teach to the test - You can prepare students for the standardize test, but it will not necessarily be the best way to teach.

 

2) Dumb down the test - If the test is too hard, too many schools will fail. Therefore, as at least what Kenberg feels about the Maryland test, it doesn't raise the standards it lowers the standards.

[helene_t]

I do think that my high school days (1952-1956) used greater common sense in this regard. Some students took algebra, some didn't, they were all taught something useful.

Problem is, the amount of jobs that don't require difficult hi-school subjects like algebra and haven't been automated or outsourced is much smaller today than it was in 52-56. This is especially clear in countries with small languages like Scandinavia and the Netherlands - most jobs require proficiency in English.

[y66]

it is only necessary that we look into how we respond (and feel about it) to better understand ourselves.

So how do you feel about this response?

 

Please do not be pompous, trite or facetious. :rolleyes:

 

Just kidding man. Actually, I like your response a lot.

[mikeh]

I read the facts and as for the coffee case, I think the argument stops at

 

She put the hot cofee between her lap. What do we know about hot coffee? Oh, I know. It's HOT!

 

Because of things like this, every cup now has a warning which says Hot coffee is Hot.

Or, I have an Foldable Exersaucer (This is a child entertainment toy for kids just first standing which folds together, and there is a warning which states "Do not fold while child is inside")

 

As for the Child Left Behind Act, in principle it is a good idea. It is trying to establish minimum standards for a public school, but I am not sure it necessarily does that. One of two things rates to happen:

 

1) Teach to the test - You can prepare students for the standardize test, but it will not necessarily be the best way to teach.

 

2) Dumb down the test - If the test is too hard, too many schools will fail. Therefore, as at least what Kenberg feels about the Maryland test, it doesn't raise the standards it lowers the standards.

Ok:

 

So we know that coffee is hot.

 

Did we, as consumers, know that:

 

1. most commercial coffee is delivered to the customer at about 155 degrees, such that it very quickly, if spilt, drops below the temperature at which skin is destroyed

 

2. McDonalds, knowing this to be so, and knowing that 700 customers had already been scalded by their coffee persisted in serving it at 185 degrees

 

3. McDonalds encouraged the purchase of this very hot coffee by occupants of vehicles

 

4. McDonalds encouraged such occupants to also take creamer and sugar... addition of which to the drink required removing the plastic lid

 

5. McDonalds knew that this was often done by people in moving vehicles (yes, people should pull over.. have you ever used or seen someone use a cell phone while driving... that is just as stupid and I bet you or someone you respect has done this more than once)

 

6. This was all happening before multiple cup holders were standard equipment, so McDonalds had to have known that people would put the coffee in their lap in order to add the creamer and sugar

 

The bottom line is that no human I know has a built-in thermometer and most of us wouldn't expect a restaurant to serve us a dangerous product.

 

Imagine a hotel that delivered pure hot water from its showers at 180 degrees... and told you, after you were burned, that 'of course the hot water is hot, you idiot'.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

after reading the article, I change my mind,

mainly because of #2.

 

I also think, that the $2.7 mio punitive damage reward

was more intended as a punishment for McDonalds than

as a gift for the injured woman.

Maybe the the jury should have said, that McDonalds should

give most of the money to an organisation fighting for product

safety.

But I dont think this would have been an otoion, or nobody

thought about this.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mikeh]

Hi,

 

after reading the article, I change my mind,

mainly because of #2.

 

I also think, that the $2.7 mio punitive damage reward

was more intended as a punishment for McDonalds than

as a gift for the injured woman.

Maybe the the jury should have said, that McDonalds should

give most of the money to an organisation fighting for product

safety.

But I dont think this would have been an otoion, or nobody

thought about this.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

You are absolutely right: punitive damages are NOT intended to be compensatory of the victim. Yes, it might be a nice idea if the money, sort of a fine, could go elsewhere, but that's not the way the system is designed.

 

I think a lot of people might have felt more comfortable if the result had been compensatory damages plus a fine for outrageous conduct, with the fine going to some entity other than the plaintiff and her lawyers. OTOH, the lawyer did a good job, not only for his client but also for all of the other victims who would have been injured were McDonalds to continue their practices (and I don't know if they ever changed.. since I don't frequent McDonalds)

[pclayton]

A lot of McDonalds' problems in the coffee case were self-inflicted. Failing to settle early was idiotic. Failure to address complaints of 700 consumers (probably 10x people were actually harmed, but not everyone bothers to write a letter). So this 'sticks' to them.

 

Still, you order a cup of coffee. If I held a cup of hot liquid that was 180 degrees, you can make damn sure that my hand would be screaming and I would take great care. This is how a Starbucks cup is until you put one of those little insulators on it.

 

If I'm in a car, I would use something called a cupholder. I wouldn't be adding condiments while this cauldron was sitting between my legs. This is no brighter than trimming a hedge with a lawnmower.

 

When I was 21, I actually was scalded by coffee. I was watching TV in a supine position and had a mug perched on my abdomen. Something caused me to laugh which spilled a little which caused me to sit up which spilled the contents.

 

I had a 2" x 6" blister for about two weeks.

 

Imagine a hotel that delivered pure hot water from its showers at 180 degrees... and told you, after you were burned, that 'of course the hot water is hot, you idiot'.

 

LOL who stands in a shower and turns the water on? Usually its too cold coming out of the spigot. When I do that my little men run for a warmer climate.

[matmat]

Imagine a hotel that delivered pure hot water from its showers at 180 degrees... and told you, after you were burned, that 'of course the hot water is hot, you idiot'.

well, common sense dictates that when you get a hot shower running you test the water before you hop into it, *especially* if it is a shower of unknown quality.

 

similarly, if you are going to go diving off a peer, even if there is no "no diving sign," common sense should lead you to make sure the water is deep enough for you to not break your neck.

 

 

as for the OP, it's a nice idea, I am not sure it is original, and it could have been written better.

[matmat]

If I'm in a car, I would use something called a cupholder. I wouldn't be adding condiments while this cauldron was sitting between my legs. This is no brighter than trimming a hedge with a lawnmower.

hey!

what's wrong with using a lawnmower to trim a hedge?!

 

but seriously...

I think people (and from what i have seen this is more the case in the US than in Europe, for some reason) have been getting increasingly more lazy in regard to thinking, they try to avoid it at all cost.

 

for the moment, let's suppose that the coffee was the prescribed 155F, or whatever the "safe" temperature is and revisit the cup situation...

 

1. Styrofoam is soft, if i squeeze it I may break it or I might push the drink through the top

2. If I put the coffee between my thighs to hold it, I don't have a very stable platform with which to work, and I don't have great control of the strength with which I am holding it.

3. if the coffee spills, it will stain my clothing, coffee stains can be hard to remove, especially from the car-seat.

4. if it spills, it will still hurt a little bit, even at "okay" temperature the feeling will still be unpleasant.

 

is this progression insufficient for you to not want to be extra careful and resourceful in stirring in your cream and sugar into the coffee?