Ai Hao Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Red vs opps white, RHO open 1♠ in 1st seat, your hand: ♠107♥A76♦AJ985♣AQ10 What would you bid? 1, x2, pass3, 2♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Double, this is routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 yep please double with these hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 But wait we don't have four cards in the Unbid Major! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 It's an obvious double to me. A lot of Norwegians wouldn't double with only 3-card ♥s here, and prefer to overcall 2♦. I don't like that approach at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 I tend to overcall 2♦ on these cards. Partner should be willing to bid hearts or clubs freely since I am showing a reasonable hand at these colors. I realize that my choice will be a minority choice in this Forum, as double will be very popular. But I think that 2♦ will work out better in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 This is a borderline hand, IMO. The up-side to a 2♦ overcall is that I have enough stuff to reopen a 2♠ with a double, that my suit is apprpriate for a lead, that I have enough internal junk and external controls to make 2♦X an unlikely final contract, and I am not horrified by an aggressive partner blasting 3NT with Kxx and the spade Ace. I think that's enough for me to bid 2♦. Move my diamond Jack to hearts, and clear double. Keep everything where it is but reduce my diamonds to AJ9xx and I double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Double, this is routine. ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 X. 2D is not a good bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 X. No second choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 This is a borderline hand, IMO. The up-side to a 2♦ overcall is that I have enough stuff to reopen a 2♠ with a double, that my suit is apprpriate for a lead, that I have enough internal junk and external controls to make 2♦X an unlikely final contract, and I am not horrified by an aggressive partner blasting 3NT with Kxx and the spade Ace. I think that's enough for me to bid 2♦. Move my diamond Jack to hearts, and clear double. Keep everything where it is but reduce my diamonds to AJ9xx and I double. 2♦ followed by double would show a stronger hand for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 This is a borderline hand, IMO. The up-side to a 2♦ overcall is that I have enough stuff to reopen a 2♠ with a double, that my suit is apprpriate for a lead, that I have enough internal junk and external controls to make 2♦X an unlikely final contract, and I am not horrified by an aggressive partner blasting 3NT with Kxx and the spade Ace. I think that's enough for me to bid 2♦. Move my diamond Jack to hearts, and clear double. Keep everything where it is but reduce my diamonds to AJ9xx and I double. 2♦ followed by double would show a stronger hand for me. It would for me too, usually. This hand is right at the lowest edge, because of the prime controls and fitting junk (actually in two suits -- I really like that club holding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Depends on the players in the panel. If they're weak I'd say 2♦, if they are good players, "Dbl WTP" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 X. The alternative is 2D, but due to the badsuit quality I prefer X. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Double seems clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASkolnick Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I'm sorry, I am with the 2♦ bidders as well. I tend to bid out shape first. As for the people saying, you must be a bad player if you don't is silly. I also agree with Ken, if my 5 card suit, looks like a 4 card suit, I would double, but AJ9xx is a reasonable suit. What would you like me to do with my 9 count and 4 card hearts on the auction, 1♠-X-2♠- I guess a responsive double is OK, but when LHO bids 3S, I have no idea where I stand. If I bid 2D and decide to reopen, that is good. Or now, partner can make a responsive double with the hand and I could bid. Double is always the most "flexible" action it seems, but nobody seems to understand that when the auction gets back to you, you may not be able to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 This is a borderline hand, IMO. The up-side to a 2♦ overcall is that I have enough stuff to reopen a 2♠ with a double, that my suit is apprpriate for a lead, that I have enough internal junk and external controls to make 2♦X an unlikely final contract, and I am not horrified by an aggressive partner blasting 3NT with Kxx and the spade Ace. I think that's enough for me to bid 2♦. Move my diamond Jack to hearts, and clear double. Keep everything where it is but reduce my diamonds to AJ9xx and I double. 2♦ followed by double would show a stronger hand for me. Or a hand with better diamonds and a stiff spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I'm sorry, I am with the 2♦ bidders as well. I tend to bid out shape first. As for the people saying, you must be a bad player if you don't is silly. I also agree with Ken, if my 5 card suit, looks like a 4 card suit, I would double, but AJ9xx is a reasonable suit. What would you like me to do with my 9 count and 4 card hearts on the auction, 1♠-X-2♠- I guess a responsive double is OK, but when LHO bids 3S, I have no idea where I stand. If I bid 2D and decide to reopen, that is good. Or now, partner can make a responsive double with the hand and I could bid. Bid what? And what if his four hearts are really five hearts? It's not that 2♦ couldn't work or that double must lead to a good spot. It's that this is a very common problem that experienced players have confronted many times before, so we are used to thinking about it and don't have to rehash the plusses and minuses each time. The fact is you have support for all unbid suits, and so double gives you the best chance of reaching your best fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waubrey Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Double, hoping to find a major suir fit. No second choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I'm sorry, I am with the 2♦ bidders as well. I tend to bid out shape first. As for the people saying, you must be a bad player if you don't is silly. I also agree with Ken, if my 5 card suit, looks like a 4 card suit, I would double, but AJ9xx is a reasonable suit. What would you like me to do with my 9 count and 4 card hearts on the auction, 1♠-X-2♠- I guess a responsive double is OK, but when LHO bids 3S, I have no idea where I stand. If I bid 2D and decide to reopen, that is good. Or now, partner can make a responsive double with the hand and I could bid. Bid what? And what if his four hearts are really five hearts? It's not that 2♦ couldn't work or that double must lead to a good spot. It's that this is a very common problem that experienced players have confronted many times before, so we are used to thinking about it and don't have to rehash the plusses and minuses each time. The fact is you have support for all unbid suits, and so double gives you the best chance of reaching your best fit. Wow. I'm very impressed. There are hands where double is clearly right, and there are hands where 2♦ is clearly right. You, however, have played and discussed so many hands in that tweener range (between X and 2♦) that you have been able to gain an understanding of exactly where the plusses and minuses tilt ever-so-slightly in favor of the double over the 2♦ overcall? Wow. I suppose you also have been able to hash and rehash the ever-so-slight differences between when that balance tips as a function of the opening bid (whether 1♣, 1♦, 1♥, or 1♠) and of the base suit (whichever that may be), as an additional function of whether the side suits are 3-3, 3-4, or 4-3. I also suppose that, in your circles, these factors and conclusions are well known, having been discussed at great length, of course. But, one thing I don't get. Your conclusory statement seems really dumbed down. "The fact is you have support for all unbid suits, and so double gives you the best chance of reaching your best fit." I mean, using that theory, ♠-- ♥432 ♦AKQJ1098 ♣432 would be a clear double. I never looked at it right, I suppose, because I would think that overcalling some number of diamonds was right. Now I feel silly for missing the obvious double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Who says those differences are at all slight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Who says those differences are at all slight? OK. Take a hand where the clearly right plan is to overcall 2♦ and then reopen with a double if necessary. Then take a hand where doubling is clearly right. Now, change the cards for each so that the two hand start to look more-and-more alike. My guess is that, at some point, you will use some set of rules or some relatively minor features of the hands to decide when one call is beter than the other. As an example, I would hope that V-Axx-AKJ98x-Qxxx is clearly a candidate for 2♦ and that x-Axxx-AJ98-AQ10x is clearly a double. The proposed hand is xx-Axx-AJ98x-AQ10. A slightly different hand would be x-Axx-AJ98xx-AQ10, and that screams 2♦, I hope. But, what about xx-xxx-AKJ98-AQ10? For me, the actual hand was on the border, but the factors leaning toward 2♦ were described, and I believe quite detailed. I also believe that they were more useful than "I gots three of each suit, or more." That's a useless standard, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think you need a week off Ken ;) Go get some mountain air and when you ll be back im sure you ll double instead of overcalling 2D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah agree with Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Dble is atuomatic to me and the 2D overcall just pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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