1NT vs 3m

[MickyB]

When you hold a hand too weak to look for game opposite a 15-17 1NT opener, how do you decide whether to transfer to a 6+card minor or not? Obviously whether you have a singleton or not is a big factor...any thoughts?

[SoTired]

Of course you need a 6-card minor to consider 3m...

 

Some thots:

 

the longer and weaker the suit and hand, the more likely 3m is better. So Q-7th and out is definitely 3m. KJ-6th with an outside K is probably not. MP vs IMPS is important, too. At MP, if you can take 8 tricks in NT, then you need to take 10 tricks in 3m to beat it. At IMPS, the safer contract is better, so 3m is likely better than 1N. If your suit runs at NT, you will probably take many tricks in either contract, but if your suit does not run in NT, then 7 tricks at NT might be harder to get than 9 tricks in the minor.

[SlickRicky]

Hi,

 

I almost always transfer to the 6 card minor. I would not on hands like Qx Qx Qxx xxxxxx or other such contrived hands, but it would be quite rare for me.

 

Ricky

[MickyB]

KJxxxx and an outside K is certainly too good to pass 1NT at teams, I'd have thought.

 

I don't know why, I just seem to have a bit of a blind-spot over this issue. I'm posting this because I felt I hadn't properly dealt with a pupil's question on this issue, so maybe I should have posted this in the B&I forum instead.

 

I guess QJT9xx you'd certainly transfer...With AKxxxx you are unlikely to be passing 1NT, but with AQxxxx or KQxxxx there's a fair chance your suit will run, there's also a fair chance you could be totally stranded from it in 1NT.

[SoTired]

Aren't you teaching that a 3m response to 1N shows a 6-card suit with 2 of top 3 honors and out. It asks opener to bid 3N with the missing honor and pass without. I thought that was what beginners are taught.

 

Therefore, deciding whether to pass 1N or bid 2S, which is a transfer to 3C for minor suit sign-off, is made on a suit without 2 of top 3 honors.

[gnasher]

I almost always transfer to the 6 card minor. I would not on hands like Qx Qx Qxx xxxxxx or other such contrived hands, but it would be quite rare for me.

Me too.

 

I find the argument for passing 1NT at matchpoints unconvincing - to make eight tricks in notrumps partner will need both to get your suit going and to have enough quick winners on the side. Also, if you have the sort of hand where you expect to make 8 tricks opposite a typical 1NT opening, you have a hand worth inviting game.

[han]

I also generally transfer with a 6-card minor. There is a good chance that 3m is safer and maybe it keeps them out of their major suit fit.

[jdonn]

The more minimum I am, the more likely I am to transfer. In general I agree you should transfer to a 6+ minor on a hand where you would otherwise pass 1NT.

[pclayton]

I would go so far as to say I would never play 1N with a 6 card minor. If the suit is weak, we should be in a suit. Does this situation differ from holding a six card major? (not really).

 

If the suit / hand is good enough, I'll be more interested in 3N, but will subside in 3m.

[barmar]

I would go so far as to say I would never play 1N with a 6 card minor. If the suit is weak, we should be in a suit. Does this situation differ from holding a six card major? (not really).

The difference is that with a major you can play on the 2 level, while you have to go a level higher to play in a minor. B/I's are likely to be scared that the 3 level is too high when they have a weak hand. What they fail to realize is that with a hand whose only value is its distribution, the 1 level may be too high if their suit isn't trump.

 

To handle the in-between hands that some have mentioned, it pays to play 4-way transfers, and have some way for opener to indicate his degree of fit when he accepts the transfer (usually bidding the intervening step either shows or denies a good holding). Responder can then judge whether the suit is likely to run -- if so he can bid 3NT on the expectation that the 1NT opener can take 3 tricks in the other suits.

[han]

I would pass 1NT with Qx Kxx Qx xxxxxx.

[suokko]

My partner has transfered with 5 card minor which worked out well. Opps missed their making 3M. x xxx T987x KT9x was about what my partner had for transfer.

 

I had KQx support and made that contract for near top.

 

So it isn't impossible idea to transfer to 5 card minor in matchpoints.

[barmar]

Suokko, that's called "resulting" -- deciding that something is a good (or bad) idea because of one good (or bad) result. It's a very bad habit to get into in bridge.

 

You got lucky that time, but most of the time it won't work out so well.

[han]

I wouldn't ever transfer with a weak hand and only 5 cards in the suit. However, I wouldn't b surprised if there are hands where it is +EV to transfer, and those hands are probably weak hands with 5-4 in the minors.

 

By the way, if you bid 2NT and partner bids 3C (don't like diamonds) and you hold xxx x 1098xx K109x, would you pass?

[suokko]

Suokko, that's called "resulting" -- deciding that something is a good (or bad) idea because of one good (or bad) result.  It's a very bad habit to get into in bridge.

 

You got lucky that time, but most of the time it won't work out so well.

Remember that MP is not bridge ;) I wouldn't ever do that in teams where winning part score hands (by 10 points) isn't important.

 

I think you can have NV MP excepted result to be over average with many 5-4 minor hands if you transfer to your good 5 card minor. This works same way as junk preempts in NV. You may buy good sacrifice under their making level or they might end to wrong trump suit in game level. You might get -1100 sometimes but that is just one bottom for many good boards.

Of course it would be better if your system includes minor suit stayman but in random partnership that isn't possible to agree.

 

By the way, if you bid 2NT and partner bids 3C (don't like diamonds) and you hold xxx x 1098xx K109x, would you pass?

If you are lucky to have that agreement then yes :)

 

But I usually have 3♣ transferring to ♦.

[Finch]

Aren't you teaching that a 3m response to 1N shows a 6-card suit with 2 of top 3 honors and out. It asks opener to bid 3N with the missing honor and pass without. I thought that was what beginners are taught.

I don't know what beginners are taught round the world, but 'ere a 3m response to 1NT shows a slam try with that minor. Natural and forcing, easy game.

[Gerben42]

Depends who is teaching. I don't teach any strong jump shifts in any situation, as it clashes with my basic principle to describe slowly with strong hands, and get weaker hands off your chest right away. So I agree with the "If you have a top honor, we might make 9 tricks" meaning for beginners who do not play transfers.