maximum passed hand

[Apollo81]

♠Axx

♥xxx

♦KQx

♣Kxxx

 

None vul, IMPs

 

(p)-p-(p)-1♣

(p)-2♣-(X)-p

(2♦)-X-(p)-3♣

(p)-?

[ArtK78]

Pass, unless you have a noose handy for partner.

 

I assume that your 2♣ bid was strong, even by a passed hand.

[matmat]

Pass, unless you have a noose handy for partner.

 

I assume that your 2♣ bid was strong, even by a passed hand.

partner opened 1♣ in fourth chair at IMPS. unless they happen to have a deathwish they will have a decent hand.

 

3NT please. (it might be that 3d/3h/3s is the right call, but i don't see a reason to expose a weakness in a side suit).

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I showed my hand.

 

I am assuming 2C inv. raise, and the X

of 2D did not make my hand weaker.

 

Partner was not interested, for that

matter, do we have a heart stopper?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

Added Later:

I am not familiar with a style, which pases this hand

in 2nd seat, but if this the system, that is fine, but than

I think partner will be forced to reopen with lighter

values than usual, which makes a pass now even more

matadory.

[NickRW]

Pass - close, but pass.

 

That is unless we have some agreement that partner's pass over our 2C doubled meant something other than "I have nothing exciting to say - you decide".

 

If it were MP, I think the pass is clear cut - if we were vul at IMPs - er - well - I wouldn't like it, but I am verging on taking a gamble at 3N.

 

Nick

[han]

Pass.

[skjaeran]

I don't understand why I didn't open this hand, but that's another matter. That might have made things easier, or not. :lol:

 

Anyway, I don't play inverted minors as a passed hand, and the post doesn't say anything regarding that, but I guess we do. 2♣ followed by double shows a maximum as it is, but I doubt partner expects all this. Still, he didn't make any move towards game, and I'll respect that decision. So pass it is.

[Edmunte1]

Passing in second seat with 4 controls and a K-Q structure is just losing bridge. Most of the time in bridge bidding i think you cannot corect an initial mistake without taking a view.

[SlickRicky]

Hi,

 

I think passing this hand is ridiculous. However, it would be more ridiculous to force to game after partner has made the minimum bid every chance he has had. Forcing to game now would be a gross violation of discipline; if you do that then you really need to open this hand.

 

Ricky

[marcD]

I must say pass is probably right but I would have opened anyway. Now my partner can never imagine I have such a hand + he has fair values for a minor opening in 4th seat so it looks like an easy 3NT. Actually I would have responded 1♦ to try to right side the contract

[655321]

I think there should be an abstain option in the poll.

 

Sure, different people have different standards for their opening bids, but at some stage a hand is strong enough that passing it is just bad bridge. To me, not opening the bidding with this hand is just terrible.

[mike777]

If your system says pass balanced 12 counts in first and second seat np but then I respond 2nt now over 1c opening.

[NickRW]

I think there should be an abstain option in the poll.

 

Sure, different people have different standards for their opening bids, but at some stage a hand is strong enough that passing it is just bad bridge. To me, not opening the bidding with this hand is just terrible.

I agree that it is probably terrible if you and your partner play the sort of style where you expect all balanced 12s to open - not so much because of whether this is or isn't a sound style - but because partner will have trouble envisaging our hand.

 

Personally, years ago, I played Precision with a (12)13-15 NT and 1♦ always showing 4 - and did so in a field where most were playing a 12-14 NT. There were some hands where this was bad - there were also hands, probably at least as many, where it was good for us that we were passing some poor to average balanced 12s lacking 4 diamonds. I don't really know for sure - I didn't keep records - but my impression is that we were ahead overall.

 

These days I am back to playing Acol - but still passing a lot of crappy 12s like this one - and I am still a long way from convinced that this is poor strategy - but I have to admit that I only play this way with partners who see eye to eye.

 

On the other hand, this sort of thing:

 

Jxx

K9xxx

AJTxx

-

 

is screaming "open me" at me. (But, again, I only do so with partners used to this style and only if we are doing something with the 2 openers that means that one bids are not mega wide ranging).

 

Nick

[OleBerg]

I've somehow been thrown the miracle, that I can stay out of a bad game, that most people would bid. I see no reason to throw it away.

 

Pass.

 

(Naturally an overbidder like me, finds it surreal to pass the hand in the opening.)

[Codo]

I cannot construct many hands where partner opens 4. seat and we have no play in 3 NT.

And I would belive that everybody in this tournement (or the other table) is in 3 NT, so why should I take an outside position? I truly have maximum and the double may help us to make the contract.

[OleBerg]

I cannot construct many hands where partner opens 4. seat and we have no play in 3 NT.

And I would belive that everybody in this tournement (or the other table) is in 3 NT, so why should I take an outside position? I truly have maximum and  the double may help us to make the contract.

If you judge it to be a bad contract, there is no reason to bid, just because the other table have.

 

Of course if you judge it to be a good contract, you should bid it.

[ochinko]

3NT without regrets whatever the result turns out to be.

[Apollo81]

10-10, nice.

[rbforster]

For me it's partner's choice to open 1♣ in 4th that is the important part. He should have a good hand, and often with some major length. He probably didn't bid over 2♣-X because he is something like (43)15 or 4414 and is willing to defend a major. When our X gets back to him, he's unwilling to sit and can't bid a major since we've denied having one so he's basically forced to bid 3♣ with any min hand that can't sit. That said, I can't see him opening worse than a random 12 count in 4th and I'm willing to take my chances in 3NT.

[P_Marlowe]

I cannot construct many hands where partner opens 4. seat and we have no play in 3 NT.

And I would belive that everybody in this tournement (or the other table) is in 3 NT, so why should I take an outside position? I truly have maximum and the double may help us to make the contract.

I am not going to argue with 3NT, just wanted to

say, that the pass in first seat did already put you

in an outside position.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

I bid 3NT because passing this hand was so terrible to me that I refuse to take the low road later unless I'm sure it's right, which I'm not.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

These days I am back to playing Acol - but still passing a lot of crappy 12s like this one - and I am still a long way from convinced that this is poor strategy - but I have to admit that I only play this way with partners who see eye to eye.

<snip>

Does this affect the actions your partners

take in 4th seat?

 

I snipped away your hand, do you open this

hand in the same partnership you pass hands

with crappy 12s?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[NickRW]

Does this affect the actions your partners take in 4th seat?

 

Not particularly. Like a lot of other people I like to see spades in a borderline 4th seat hand - or at least a few spades and lots of hearts.

 

I snipped away your hand, do you open this

hand in the same partnership you pass hands

with crappy 12s?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

Yeah. A lot of people have great faith in HCP and not so much in distribution - which is reflected in their attitude to opening. I have the reverse philosphy.

 

Partly this is born out of my past system choices - partly out of analysis of a database of DD results. I found that two shapeless, intermediateless 12 counts don't provide good play for game - so no imperative to open them - while two hands like the one I quoted (with reasonable fit) often do - but you won't find the fit (if it exists) by not bidding of course.

 

Nick

 

P.S. Later edit. I said above, "but you won't find the fit (if it exists) by not bidding of course." If you take this attitude to opening, you have to be really quite aware of potential misfits and ready to stop - thus systems that are full of forcing sequences are, to my mind, not a good fit with this. It does go quite well with a limit system like Acol - it would probably also go well with something like Magic Diamond or similar system with a number of opening ranges built in.

[NickRW]

10-10, nice.

I ran a sim on this. It is genuinely very close indeed. It really all depends on exactly what assumptions you have about the strength (or lack of it) that partners 4th seat opening shows. If partner will be really quite sound only having (apparently) clubs, the lowest ranked suit, for a 4th seat opener, then game is just worth bidding. If partner is even slightly lower than that, then you're better off out of it.

 

Nick

[lilboyman]

If our agreement is to pass a hand such as this in first or second seat, then I would expect my partner to protect with very little in 3rd or 4th seat. In 4th seat I would expect a "rule of 15" up to a full opener. My double of 2 Ds is a discovery mechanism promising a near opener and the balance of power if partner has at least 12 HCP. Partner can pass, if our side has 23 HCP, bid on with a game going hand or pull to 3C with a weaker hand. Accordingly, I think I pass with this hand.