A strong splinter

[cherdano]

ATxxxx Ax xx QTx

1S 4C (strong spolinter, 13-15)

4H 4S

?

 

Do you agree with 4H? Are you worth another move? If yes, which one?

[rogerclee]

I pass and think this is pretty clear.

[655321]

4♥ last time, and Pass now, both seem automatic to me.

[dicklont]

I don't like 4♥, that says the splinter fit's well in your hand.

It doesn't, the queen is worthless now and that leaves you with only two aces.

 

With clubs and diamonds reversed 4♥ is ok.

When partner holds Kxxx Kxxx AKxx x slam would be laydown.

[ochinko]

I don't think my hand deserved 4♥, and I'm grateful I now have a second chance to stop at game level with my subminimal hand.

[kenrexford]

4♥ = wild overbid

Any bid other than pass next = wow

[gwnn]

I agree with the theorist of the year on BBO.

[mcphee]

Seems I upgraded my dummy playing skills with 4H, but I can tell pard later I though I had the Q trumps. Now remains the question of did my partner notice my 4H bid, he may not have, and I might have to help them more toward the maybe just about possible slam at least one of this partnership can see. I'll likely make 7 the way I play, grrrrr, boy am I gonna yell at this idiot if we make 6. PASS

[ASkolnick]

I disagree with everyone that you should not show the AH. It does depend on style. That may be the card he is missing to make slam. However, once you bid 4H and he bids 4S, sounds like you are off a diamond control so you should pass.

[jdonn]

4♥ = OBVIOUS!!! Did you see this was defined as a 13-15 hcp splinter? That's stronger than a regular splinter. Partner is not obligated to bid on, it's just a cuebid below game. Start constructing hands for partner, many make slam. The sixth spade is as valuable as a working king on the side, sometimes moreso.

 

As for what to do now, I passed but it's CLOSE, and if you are going to bid your plan is pretty genius. When Justin gave me this hand yesterday I just acted reflexively lol, but you are a smart one Arend.

[andy_h]

Definitely agree with 4H. A-6th and Ax are pretty hot opposite a 13-15 splinter. Imagine if partner had Kxxx of spades - now give him another 10-12 and slam is pretty good! As to what I do now, I'm going to pass. I feel like I've 3/4-said-my-hand and also bypassed 4D too. The 5-level seems safe if I want to make another move but it's easy to construct the 'worst possible' hands partner can have which we may be 3 tricks off the top.

[kenrexford]

4♥ = OBVIOUS!!! Did you see this was defined as a 13-15 hcp splinter? That's stronger than a regular splinter. Partner is not obligated to bid on, it's just a cuebid below game. Start constructing hands for partner, many make slam. The sixth spade is as valuable as a working king on the side, sometimes moreso.

 

As for what to do now, I passed but it's CLOSE, and if you are going to bid your plan is pretty genius. When Justin gave me this hand yesterday I just acted reflexively lol, but you are a smart one Arend.

I think you are right as to the first part. Give partner a weak possible holding of ♠Kxxx ♥KQxx ♦Axxx ♣x, which is less than he needs for the splinter, and I only need spades to split 2-1 to make this.

 

So, I'll agree that 4♥ is not really a wild underbid.

 

However, I stand by passing being right. How can partner expect me to have a hand worse than this and not just sign off?

[mcphee]

Hard to understand that rather than build the perfect hand, partner may hold

KQJX

KQJX

KJXX

X

 

16 lovely, and the 5 level is not sure. or for the more positive thinker

QJXX

QJXX

KQXX (AQXX)

X

 

and the, I upgraded my playing values pard, and here 4 may go down. Would you also consider this hand not worthy of higher things after hearing 4H if your D holding was AQ rather than KQ? And that hand might even see you going down in 4.

 

In the old days the hand opened was not even a good weak 2 bid.

[cherdano]

How can partner expect me to have a hand worse than this and not just sign off?

This is the wrong way to think about this problem. Partner will move with a maximum for his splinter, and bid 4S with a minimum. It is your job to figure out whether you can still make slam opposite a minimum, whether you can find out when to bid it, and whether it is worth risking the 5-level.

[pclayton]

I think its a bad policy to splinter on hands this strong, although you have a clear move forward with this one. I know a lot of people play mini-maxi splinters, but I am so much more comfortable starting our investigations at 2N with hands with 13+, shortness and support.

 

I defy you to show me a hand that isn't safe at the five level. 5♥ for me.

[skjaeran]

4♥ is automatic. Give partner Kxxx Kxxx AKxx x or Kxxx KQx Axxxx x, and 6♠ is making unless trumps are 3-0. And those are minimum hands regarding hcp, but rich in controls. Partner will of course get us to slam with both those hands.

 

Over 4♠ I'd pass. Partner could have KQJx KQJx QJTx x, and there's three quick losers. Partner could have much more fitting hands and not enough to go past 4♠, but I think slam would be not_so_good facing most of those hands.

[Echognome]

If I made a forward move, I'd bid 5♠. I'm not reshowing my heart control again (despite it being the A).

 

I think I will pass however.

 

Harald gave an example of the 5-level being unsafe.

[rogerclee]

Hard to understand that rather than build the perfect hand, partner may hold

KQJX

KQJX

KJXX

X

 

16 lovely, and the 5 level is not sure. or for the more positive thinker

QJXX

QJXX

KQXX (AQXX)

X

 

and the, I upgraded my playing values pard, and here 4 may go down. Would you also consider this hand not worthy of higher things after hearing 4H if your D holding was AQ rather than KQ? And that hand might even see you going down in 4.

 

In the old days the hand opened was not even a good weak 2 bid.

LOL

[rogerclee]

I defy you to show me a hand that isn't safe at the five level. 5♥ for me.

There are hands that aren't safe at the 5-level. I'm way more worried about partner bidding slam on hands that aren't safe at the 6-level though, especially with this misdescriptive 5♥ bid.

[pclayton]

I defy you to show me a hand that isn't safe at the five level. 5♥ for me.

There are hands that aren't safe at the 5-level. I'm way more worried about partner bidding slam on hands that aren't safe at the 6-level though, especially with this misdescriptive 5♥ bid.

Yeah; 5♥ is stupid. Not sure what I was thinking.

[ArcLight]

>>1S 4C (strong spolinter, 13-15)

 

 

Is this 13-15 HCP, or 13-15 support points.

 

Since a limit raise is 10-12 support points, I think many use 13-15/16 support points as a splinter range, then move on to J2NT.

 

13-15 HCP implies 16-18 support points. 13-15 HCP outside of clubs (unless a stiff ace)

 

 

 

I don't think this is clear because strong splinter may just mean its not a mini-splinter.

I don't think Arend uses bad methods so suspect its 13-15 support points

 

 

 

Assuming 13-15 support points I would pass 4S.

I also would not have bid 4H.

[cherdano]

Not it meant 13-15 hcp. And I neither held this hand, nor are these bad methods (in fact I play them too).

[Echognome]

Not it meant 13-15 hcp. And I neither held this hand, nor are these bad methods (in fact I play them too).

Is it supposed to follow that since you play them too these aren't bad methods?

 

I would have thought the converse. :(

[han]

4H was indeed completely obvious. Our hand really isn't bad, if partner has a 0-count 4-4-4-1 shape then we'd likely lose only 5 tricks. Will partner be able to cover 4 of our losers?

 

The perfect 13-count obviously does. I think that my partner would bid again with Kxxx Kxxx AKxx x, but with Kxxx KQxx Axxx x he would not and that's not even a 13-count. With KQJx QJxx KQxx x (does this qualify as a good splinter?) the 5-level would not be safe and if partner is a very bad bridge player and can't count HCP then he might even have the second hand presented b mcphee.

 

I think it is close between pass and 5S. 5S tells partner that we have no club or diamond control and only a single heart control (which probably has to be the ace given that we are trying for slam). I think that we'd be at least on a finesse if partner bids 6 over that.

[Cascade]

4♥ for me and 5♠ now.

 

I have two key-cards and a sixth trump these are great in the context.

 

Partner is limited and will rarely push beyond 4♠ so I have to make the tough decisions. Sure occasionally we will go down at the five-level but that benefit is that we will bid some making slams when partner has a nice minimum. I think the benefit far outweighs the cost.