Hand evaluation

[skjaeran]

IMPs, both red

 

Partner opens 1NT (15-17) and you hold:

♠T94 ♥KT98 ♦Q98 ♣K54

 

What's your plan - pass/invite/bid game/search for heart fit or not?

[Guest Jlall]

If I could bid 1N-2N inv I would. If I bid 1N-2C and partner bid 2H I would raise to 3H (and expect partner to often bid 3N with 3433 max now). 1N-3N is too rich for me, partner knows the game too.

[ulven]

2C. Pass over 2H and 2NT over 2D/S.

[Walddk]

And a 3rd view: I pass 1NT.

 

Roland

[dicklont]

Invite game.

 

I must say you've got me here.

With an extra queen I would simply bid 3NT.

When 4♥ is better on this hand, tough luck, next hand.

 

Since a direct 2NT would be a transfer for diamonds I have to go trough stayman first.

No problem when the answer is 2♦ of 2♠, but when partner answers 2♥ he could have five.

Now I know we have a fit, I feel I should bid 3♥.

My partner however would not expect this flat hand and 2NT could be better than 3♥.

So I bid 2NT anyway but now there will be some tension in the air when things go wrong.

 

So I must discuss this one and will propose either to repeat the five-card when we accept this invite or to play it like Jlall.

[mike777]

IMPs, both red

 

Partner opens 1NT (15-17) and you hold:

♠T94 ♥KT98 ♦Q98 ♣K54

 

What's your plan - pass/invite/bid game/search for heart fit or not?

i thought pass only option.......must be missing something...wtp?

 

everyone else want to have a "discussion" with partner.

[gwnn]

2C. Pass over 2H and 2NT over 2D/S.

I remember you wrote a blog entry about this. I can't find it though. Can you help me?

 

edit: found it!

 

http://viewsfromthebridgetable.blogspot.co...te-paradox.html

[pclayton]

And a 3rd view: I pass 1NT.

 

Roland

Pass for me too.

 

In one of Jeff Goldsmith old articles, he discusses responding to a strong NT with a 4333 8. Pass was right then. I've kept an eye out for these over the last 6-7 years and pass tends to be a winner, especially when extra unders are factored in, and the occasional penalty when they balance.

 

In spite of the several intermediates, this is a pretty ugly 8.

[kenrexford]

When on that narrow precipice, it is critical to know partner's 1NT style. If 14 upgrades are common, and if therefore some 17's are treated as 18's, then clear pass.

[andy_h]

Too many intermediates for me to pass. I'm going to invite via 2NT invitational if i have that available.

[jtfanclub]

In spite of the several intermediates, this is a pretty ugly 8.

What would a pretty 4333 8 look like?

[P_Marlowe]

Invite, searching for the heart fit.

 

If you play MP, you may pass, but I dont think that

this will be the field choice, playing IMPs, you should

go looking for game.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

In spite of the several intermediates, this is a pretty ugly 8.

What would a pretty 4333 8 look like?

AT9x xxx ATx T9x

[helene_t]

Pass.

[han]

OK you got me, I can't pass with 109 1098 so I'm going to invite.

[mikeh]

I have (expert) friends to whom this is a wtp pass, and others to whom this is a wtp, invite hand... for me, it is a problem :)

 

I pass.

 

One of the lesser reasons is that I have no partnership in which I can bid an invitational 2N, without going through 2♣, and if partner bids 2♥, I am really, truly, stuck. Yes, in theory partner can bid 3N with Justin's max 3433, but so what? This hand will play very poorly opposite most 3=4=3=3 hands.. whether that be in notrump or hearts.

[Guest Jlall]

I think calling this a 4333 8 is a bad evaluation of the hand. This is clearly much better than your average 4333 8 (which I agree is usually a pass).

[jdonn]

Definitely invite.

[fred]

I tend to invite with balanced 8-counts only if I like my hand and only if vulnerable. My partners tend to be good declarers but they also tend to upgrade 14-counts when appropriate (and sometimes when not appropriate, but that is not my problem).

 

This hand I like enough that I would invite (since we are vulnerable).

 

I happen to use 1NT-2NT as invitational in my regular partnership with Brad Moss. I hate having to go through Stayman whenever you have to invite, especially if you have no intention of ever playing in 4 of a major.

 

If you do have to go this route to invite, Passing becomes more attractive but you also might want to consider bidding Stayman and bidding 2NT next even if partner does show 4 hearts. That is kind of a psycho idea, but it could easily work well. Of course it is not safe to do this if Stayman promises a 4-card major in your partnership (since partner might bid 4S over your 2NT rebid).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[NickRW]

Given that we're vulnerable and its IMPs and assuming 15-17 means what it says, then I think I have to invite. Even if 14 upgrades are quite common I think I still come down on the side of inviting. I think I prefer to simply make a quantative invite to 3N without searching for a heart fit as the only reason I am inviting is the intermediates - which tend to be useful in NT contracts and of relatively little value in a suit contract (or to put it another way, I think this is an invitational hand in NT, but not for hearts).

 

Nick

[ArtK78]

If you do have to go this route to invite, Passing becomes more attractive but you also might want to consider bidding Stayman and bidding 2NT next even if partner does show 4 hearts. That is kind of a psycho idea, but it could easily work well. Of course it is not safe to do this if Stayman promises a 4-card major in your partnership (since partner might bid 4S over your 2NT rebid).

Pardon me for going slightly off track for a moment.

 

Fred, in those partnerships which must go through Stayman to invite game (as 2NT is conventional), I thought it was standard - even universal - for an INVITATIONAL balanced hand with 4 spades but not 4 hearts to bid 2♠ over the 2♥ response to Stayman.

 

Are there really any partnerships out there which would bid 2NT over 2♥ to promise 4 spades and invite game, which have to go through Stayman to invite game?

[fred]

If you do have to go this route to invite, Passing becomes more attractive but you also might want to consider bidding Stayman and bidding 2NT next even if partner does show 4 hearts. That is kind of a psycho idea, but it could easily work well. Of course it is not safe to do this if Stayman promises a 4-card major in your partnership (since partner might bid 4S over your 2NT rebid).

Pardon me for going slightly off track for a moment.

 

Fred, in those partnerships which must go through Stayman to invite game (as 2NT is conventional), I thought it was standard - even universal - for an INVITATIONAL balanced hand with 4 spades but not 4 hearts to bid 2♠ over the 2♥ response to Stayman.

 

Are there really any partnerships out there which would bid 2NT over 2♥ to promise 4 spades and invite game, which have to go through Stayman to invite game?

Hi Art,

 

The way I was taught "use Stayman to invite even if you don't have a 4-card major" (a long time ago), I was also taught that you should bid 2S over 2H if you actually do happen to have 4 spades. Not sure if this is considered "standard" or not, but I suspect that a significant % of people who use Stayman this way also use the 2S bid in this way.

 

Nowadays a lot of people seem to like to play Stayman then 2S is a mild unbalanced invitation with 5 spades. Probably some of the people who play that you must bid Stayman to invite think it is more important to use 2S in this way then it is to show 4 spades.

 

I would agree with this since, if I was playing that you have to bid Stayman in order to invite, I would never actually use this sequence if I did not have a 4-card major (I would either Pass 1NT or bid 3NT).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[pclayton]

Two questions for those that are inviting here:

 

1. Imaging the universe of all 4333 eight counts. On a scale from 1 to 10, what would you assign this one?

 

2. What percentage of 4333 eight counts would you invite with Vul? NV?

[Lobowolf]

Two questions for those that are inviting here:

 

1. Imaging the universe of all 4333 eight counts. On a scale from 1 to 10, what would you assign this one?

 

2. What percentage of 4333 eight counts would you invite with Vul? NV?

I think it's about a 6 1/2 for NT, and about a 3 1/2 for hearts.

 

To the downside, no aces & 4333 distribution; to the upside, very nice intermediates and no jacks, either. Not interested in 4 hearts with the slow values, but at IMPs, I'd take a poke at 3NT. At matchpoints, I'd let partner play 1NT.

[NickRW]

Two questions for those that are inviting here:

 

1. Imaging the universe of all 4333 eight counts. On a scale from 1 to 10, what would you assign this one?

 

2. What percentage of 4333 eight counts would you invite with Vul? NV?

To answer your second question first - the answer is that it would depend on partner's preferences about upgrading 14 counts - quite a few if partner is very solid.

 

On a scale of 1 to 10, I guess this one rates about a 7 - though given that 10s would be as rare as hens teeth (AT9 T9x T9x AT9x), then maybe 8 is fairer.

 

Nick

 

Edit, as a PS to your second question, if partner upgraded a lot and we're playing MP - then I'd rarely invite with a 4333 8 if ever.