Over a broken minor

[pclayton]

♠AQxxx ♥KQJ ♦QTx ♣xx

 

All vul. LHO opens 3N (broken minor) and RHO bids 4♦ (pass or correct).

 

1. How do you play a double here? Is this analogous to a multi 2♦ - 2♠ so that double is TO of diamonds? Or is double a TO of clubs?

 

2. What is your call?

[Lobowolf]

♠AQxxx ♥KQJ ♦QTx ♣xx

 

All vul. LHO opens 3N (broken minor) and RHO bids 4♦ (pass or correct).

 

1. How do you play a double here? Is this analogous to a multi 2♦ - 2♠ so that double is TO of diamonds? Or is double a TO of clubs?

 

2. What is your call?

Can't say I've given this one much (any) consideration. With that disclaimer, since RHO can only tolerate 4♦, but at least 5♣, it seems that other things being equal, LHO's suit is more likely to be diamonds, and it would be better to have the double be takeout of diamonds than takeout of clubs.

[Apollo81]

Pass. I expect partner will balance if 4♠ is cold. Double should be takeout of diamonds here.

[nige1]

♠AQxxx ♥KQJ ♦QTx ♣xx

All vul. LHO opens 3N (broken minor) and RHO bids 4♦ (pass or correct).

1. How do you play a double here? Is this analogous to a multi 2♦ - 2♠ so that double is TO of diamonds? Or is double a TO of clubs?

2. What is your call?

IMO

• Double should show majors but since LHO has ♣, RHO is more likely to have ♦ so if you have length in a minor, from partner's point of view, it is more likely to be ♣.
  
• _P =10 _X = 9, 4♠ = 7
  

[pclayton]

My teammate thought double should be takeout of clubs. Thats what I thought at the time, but I'm not so sure.

 

I doubled, which I think is pushy. LHO passed (showing diamonds). Pard bid 4♥ on Kxx Txxx Kx Kxxx. Game needs quite a lot to make (it was -3 on 5-1 hearts) but we are getting a nice profit out of 4♦ x'd.

[mikeh]

I have never actually discussed this... and I have discussed, with various partners, a LOT of sequences.

 

I think double should just be a good hand, with transferable values. Sort of a strong notrump type of call.

 

I don't think it is safe to play it as takeout of clubs, because what limited info we have actually suggests that LHO has diamonds! RHO has no game interest in diamonds, but is forcing to game (often as a premature save) in clubs, hence he has short diamonds and long clubs, and this makes it probable that LHO has the opposite.

 

Your alternative to the transferable values double is either 'takeout of opener's suit', on the basis that you have guessed what it is, and have guessed correctly, or 'takeout for the majors'.

 

The odds of takeout for the majors being best diminish over 4♦. RHO often has length in the majors (4=4=1=4 is close to the most probable shape if one ignores our actual hand) and he will sometimes be bidding to make 5♣... if he is doing that on such a shape, 4 major is going to go for a telephone number.

 

So I would play double as general strength: partner can and should bid with a long major and shape but pass otherwise.

 

BTW, over 4♣ p/c, I'd like double to be the same, with 4♦ being majors... give up on the diamond suit.

[awm]

I have a general agreement that if my opponents bid a suit which is artificial but frequently passed (typically a pass/correct bid or attempt to "guess" partner's suit) then double is takeout of the suit they named. That would apply here, so double is takeout of diamonds.

 

If 4♦ was opened in front of me, I wouldn't be bidding with this hand. (honestly I wouldn't bid with this hand in direct seat over 4♣ either) So I'll pass.

[han]

Whatever double is, obviously this hand is a clear pass?

 

I think Adam's rule is simple and good.

[mikeh]

Whatever double is, obviously this hand is a clear pass?

 

I think Adam's rule is simple and good.

I forgot to add: I would have passed on the hand...altho the hand is close to the values I suggested for a double (and a double, as transferable values) would obviously have been the winner.. partner would pass happily.