ulven Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 I wonder what a Bermuda Bowl winner would do.There were a hand in the 1993 BB final between Norway and Netherlands where a famous norwegian X-ed on 4333 and minimum values and later his partner overcompeted and went for a number. They later told me that it wasn't the X that was wrong... I can probably find the actual deal later or Harald can give the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulven Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=b&n=skj742hj985dqtcj2&w=saqthkt3dk83c8743&e=s9865h7d9762cakq5&s=s3haq642daj54ct96]399|300|Scoring: IMP1♥ X 3♥ 4♠pass pass X [/hv] Board 71. Helness - Helgemo went for -1100 vs 3♥ down 1 losing 15 imps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=b&n=skj742hj985dqtcj2&w=saqthkt3dk83c8743&e=s9865h7d9762cakq5&s=s3haq642daj54ct96]399|300|Scoring: IMP1♥ X 3♥ 4♠pass pass X [/hv] Board 71. Helness - Helgemo went for -1100 vs 3♥ down 1 losing 15 imps. - Perhaps I'm being simple minded, but a 14 count is different from a 12 count.- Wouldn't you agree 4♠ is a definite overbid (or even a misbid)? Not to criticize great ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 uday: moved to watercooler ( obscenities, rudeness, personal attacks ). I'll erase this thread if this continues. Suggest "I disagree with your position"vs"You are a moron" but then, I'm not your mamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulven Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 - Perhaps I'm being simple minded, but a 14 count is different from a 12 count.- Wouldn't you agree 4♠ is a definite overbid (or even a misbid)? Not to criticize great ones...Sure agree on both accounts. It was just posted as a reply regarding the question about Bermuda Bowl winners, as that jogged my memory and I recalled the conversation Geir and I had about this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 To me this is a very easy and obvious pass. I know some (very few) who disagree, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 For me this is an easy pass, but it depends on style. I wouldn't dare to call the doublers nuts. (I would make more enemies than I can afford. :() My simple reasons why I won't double with this kind of hands. There are roughly three scenarios: 1) It is their hand. We don't want to be in the bidding with such poor suits. 2) It is our hand. The auction is expected to go 1♦-Pass-Pass and partner can act. I have quite a few possible bids avaiable to show partner that I have a decent hand that couldn't double at the first turn.If LHO finds a bid with 5 points opposite 11, we will at worst loose a partscore, but probably they will be down for a tie (or win when they go down 2). 3) It is a 20-20 hand. The hand looks like a misfit: The side that wins the contract is the side that is likely to go minus. I don't want to win the contract. Obviously, there are also scenarios where a double may lead to a good result and pass to a bad one, but the above three scenarios seem most likely to me. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Nothing to do with skill level, there will be passers and doublers at pretty much any level. (But of course passers are wimps.) There will be a higher ratio of doublers:passers the higher up the skill ladder you go. There are also many on beginner/low intermediate level who routinely double when they have a weak NT because they can't stand passing when they would have opened. (Above a certain level I agree.) Personally, I would double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 I would pass. Not at all surprised to see cherdano doubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvage Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 To me this is close between pass and double. I can see myself choosing both, depending on vulnerability, opponents and time of day. In my experience doubling with 3334 (4 card in the unbid minor) and the appropiate strength has led to more good results than bad, but as mentioned by other posters the honour-location is not optimal on the given hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 I'm a passer, I'd double if the honours are in the Majors instead of the ♦ suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Pass (on the hand and on the vitriol being handed out by our should-know-better-than-that friends). :) I would try 1 NT before I would double. After a double, pard will look at dummy and figure that I had to brb desperately. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I think a major fact is how you can control the bidding after partner reopen with a X. With 13 pts and a double stopper you have an easy 2Nt. With 15 pts & Qxx in S with or without 4H its tougher. If you cue-bid are you forcing to game ? If so so might easily go overboard if partner X agressively. Since 8 pts tend to be enough in balancing seats 14-15 pts hands are tough to handle after partner made a balancing double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Totally obvious pass for me. I think double is not a good call unless you specifically play italian style t/o doubles. I think the "wusses" play bridge, others thow the die and let them land where they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Proud to be a wuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 More about partnership "trust". Do you need to "operate" or can you trust partner to know to do what is "right" under the circumstances. That is why bridge is such a partnership game and why so many go down in flames when one feels the need to discount the other member of the pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Whatever your call is, it's hardly "totally obvious" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Totally obvious pass for me. I think double is not a good call unless you specifically play italian style t/o doubles. I think the "wusses" play bridge, others thow the die and let them land where they will. It's a good game, you know, when you win on 1 2 3 or 4 and lose on 5 or 6. But some people are too scared to take any risk at all to know a positive expectation when they are looking at it. I don't expect the discussion to convince anyone of much. After all, look how many 1NT bidders there are! Clearly the opinions of a crowd are to be taken with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Totally obvious pass for me. I think double is not a good call unless you specifically play italian style t/o doubles. I think the "wusses" play bridge, others thow the die and let them land where they will. It's a good game, you know, when you win on 1 2 3 or 4 and lose on 5 or 6. But some people are too scared to take any risk at all to know a positive expectation when they are looking at it. I don't expect the discussion to convince anyone of much. After all, look how many 1NT bidders there are! Clearly the opinions of a crowd are to be taken with a grain of salt. We're in the water cooler now, right? This is just standard macho posturing. Some people are so scared of appearing to be girlie feeble bidders with no balls, that they would rather make an insanely agressive call with negative expectation than the technically correct pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Totally obvious pass for me. I think double is not a good call unless you specifically play italian style t/o doubles. I think the "wusses" play bridge, others thow the die and let them land where they will. It's a good game, you know, when you win on 1 2 3 or 4 and lose on 5 or 6. But some people are too scared to take any risk at all to know a positive expectation when they are looking at it. I don't expect the discussion to convince anyone of much. After all, look how many 1NT bidders there are! Clearly the opinions of a crowd are to be taken with a grain of salt. We're in the water cooler now, right? This is just standard macho posturing. Some people are so scared of appearing to be girlie feeble bidders with no balls, that they would rather make an insanely agressive call with negative expectation than the technically correct pass. If you are going to start insulting people who weren't even talking to you completely out of the blue, it would probably be more polite to have actually posted your opinion in the thread already, lest people think this was the only reason you came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Frances for president :angry: But the fear of being classified as not having (whatever body part one associates with risk-willingness) if passing is irrational: Someone said that bidding is dangerous but passing is more dangerous. Obviously this depends on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Ever since Garozzo jumped on my bandwagon, "pass" has picked up a lot of traction in the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 It's a good game, you know, when you win on 1 2 3 or 4 and lose on 5 or 6. But some people are too scared to take any risk at all to know a positive expectation when they are looking at it. Depending, of course, on how much you're gaining on 1-4, and how much you're losing on 5 & 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 "meo-r-o-w-r"!! (vain attempt at making the cat-fight sound) But I like the passion that can be expressed either way. If everything was cut and dried then it would be "Go fish!" wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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