Skill Level

[pclayton]

All red; IMPs

 

♠JTx ♥8xx ♦AK9 ♣AQTx

 

1♦ as dealer on your right

[rogerclee]

DOUBLE, PASS = YOU ARE A WUSSSSSSSSSSS

[gwnn]

I don't like double with virtually nothing in the majors. I would be anything but pleased if pard jumped in his 4cM here. Double is OK also I suppose, could easily win e.g. if we find a 5cM or clubs.

[Lobowolf]

Pass; double is reasonable. 4333 hands are made for defense. I'm surprised it's 50-50 so far; I have little doubt that I'm going to be on the short end of a one-sided vote.

[jdonn]

People have wised up over time. Pass = will get stolen blind.

[inquiry]

I prefer double... i do have support for all the suits, including theirs...... :(

[Mosene]

I pass. The auction is not over yet (and unlikely to die in 1 diamond, but if it does probably good for us).

[cherdano]

Nothing to do with skill level, there will be passers and doublers at pretty much any level. (But of course passers are wimps.)

[ArtK78]

In that case, I am a wimp.

 

I think pass is clear.

[mike777]

pass

 

with such good D 4333 balanced and 33 in majors I decided to be a wuss.

PUT MY AK Of D into other suits I double.

[mikeh]

colour me chicken, but double requires a VERY understanding partner and an agreement that we NEVER discuss our horrific results with our teammates.

 

Pass may be for wusses, but doubling on these hands reminds me of the line about motorcyclists... there are old motorcyclists, and there are bold motorcyclists, but there are no old, bold motorcyclists.

 

More pertinently, I have no problem seeing how double can lead to disaster and far more difficulty seeing how pass can lead to our being robbed blind when and if partner can't intervene at his call. I mean, if he has a 4333 6 count, which is his median hand, just what are we doing in the auction after double? Yes, such hands usually are won by the first side to bid 1N, but that is not ever going to be our side. And 2M major on a 4-3 fit? You can steal these from me all day long on this kind of hand.

[jdonn]

I take it back. I thought people had wised up over time but I guess not :blink:

[awm]

Pass. Not close.

 

Honestly I'd rather bid 1NT than double. At least 1NT wins the "race to bid 1NT" and avoids the major suit moysian. We still find a 5-3 major fit if we have one, and we take up more of the opponents space.

[Guest Jlall]

Nothing to do with skill level, there will be passers and doublers at pretty much any level. (But of course passers are wimps.)

There will be a higher ratio of doublers:passers the higher up the skill ladder you go. But agree with the sentiment that you cannot tell if someone is good or bad based on what they do on this hand.

 

Anyways, I find it hard to get too worked up about this hand myself, I would probably pass but I could see myself doubling also. All the warning signs are up, specifically a lot of values in their suits, 3-3 in the majors, all red imps, etc. That being said I generally hate to pass with this much if it can be avoided. I would double for sure if one of the majors were switched with clubs. I would pass for sure w/r.

[Lobowolf]

I wonder what a Bermuda Bowl winner would do.

[pclayton]

Nothing to do with skill level, there will be passers and doublers at pretty much any level. (But of course passers are wimps.)

There will be a higher ratio of doublers:passers the higher up the skill ladder you go. But agree with the sentiment that you cannot tell if someone is good or bad based on what they do on this hand.

After the comments in this one:

 

Part Score battle

 

I'm surprised the thoughts in this thread are this subdued. Are the hands really that different?

 

This hand was from a game Benito played in and he passed:

 

Benito is a wuss

 

I'm sure plenty of fine players would double and plenty would pass. Some get emotional about their choice and others don't. Personally I don't get that excited about it.

 

To each his own I guess.

[Guest Jlall]

After the comments in this one:

 

Part Score battle

 

I'm surprised the thoughts in this thread are this subdued. Are the hands really that different?

LOL. Please try harder. Or please DIAGF. I don't really care either way.

 

You are constantly trying to do things like this, and you are constantly failing. The fact that you cannot see the difference in Qxx AQJx T8x AQx after 1S ? and JTx xxx AK9 AQTx after 1D ? IS COMPLETELY MIND BOGGLING. The fact that you try to call people out for understanding the differences in these hands is ROFLOL. Please continue to try to call me out on either being inconsistent or wrong, you will continue to fail, because the only thing you suck more at than bridge is logic.

 

If you even read my post IN THIS THREAD you will notice some of the differences immediately. You are not concerned with such things though.

 

I'm sure plenty of fine players would double and plenty would pass. Some get emotional about their choice and others don't. Personally I don't get that excited about it.

 

To each his own I guess.

 

Was this directed at me still? I will assume not since I SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.

[pclayton]

After the comments in this one:

 

Part Score battle

 

I'm surprised the thoughts in this thread are this subdued. Are the hands really that different?

LOL. Please try harder. Or please DIAGF. I don't really care either way.

 

You are constantly trying to do things like this, and you are constantly failing. The fact that you cannot see the difference in Qxx AQJx T8x AQx after 1S ? and JTx xxx AK9 AQTx after 1D ? IS COMPLETELY MIND BOGGLING. The fact that you try to call people out for understanding the differences in these hands is ROFLOL. Please continue to try to call me out on either being inconsistent or wrong, you will continue to fail, because the only thing you suck more at than bridge is logic.

 

If you even read my post IN THIS THREAD you will notice some of the differences immediately. You are not concerned with such things though.

 

I'm sure plenty of fine players would double and plenty would pass. Some get emotional about their choice and others don't. Personally I don't get that excited about it.

 

To each his own I guess.

 

Was this directed at me still? I will assume not since I SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.

When the f*** did I ever call you out? Why do you take this so personally?

[nige1]

All red; IMPs ♠JTx ♥8xx ♦AK9 ♣AQTx

1♦ as dealer on your right

IMO _P = 10 _X = 7

As a Scot, I don't like 7 HCP in opener's suit and 1 HCP in the majors :blink:

An Italian might take a different view ;)

Second thoughts:

PClayton says that even Benito Garrozo would pass this one, so perhaps Italians are changing their strategy :)

[Elianna]

Nothing to do with skill level, there will be passers and doublers at pretty much any level. (But of course passers are wimps.)

There will be a higher ratio of doublers:passers the higher up the skill ladder you go. But agree with the sentiment that you cannot tell if someone is good or bad based on what they do on this hand.

Funny thing is, after a certain point, I would be willing to bet money that the FURTHER DOWN the skill ladder you go, you would find a higher ratio of doublers:passers.

 

I'm talking about those that just finished a beginner's course, or haven't even taken one.

 

But I won't argue your point, because I could see it being true, too. I would believe that there's a U-shaped curve for the ratio of doublers:passers

[mikeh]

You are constantly trying to do things like this, and you are constantly failing. The fact that you cannot see the difference in Qxx AQJx T8x AQx after 1S ? and JTx xxx AK9 AQTx after 1D ? IS COMPLETELY MIND BOGGLING. The fact that you try to call people out for understanding the differences in these hands is ROFLOL. Please continue to try to call me out on either being inconsistent or wrong, you will continue to fail, because the only thing you suck more at than bridge is logic.

 

If you even read my post IN THIS THREAD you will notice some of the differences immediately. You are not concerned with such things though.

 

I'm sure plenty of fine players would double and plenty would pass. Some get emotional about their choice and others don't. Personally I don't get that excited about it.

 

To each his own I guess.

 

Was this directed at me still? I will assume not since I SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.

 

Justin, I don't understand why you attack Phil this way... what makes you think that he was even referring to your post... you are not the only good player to comment on the merits of pass on this hand, and double on the other. And while you and I and, I assume many others, see a clear difference between the two hands (And I suspect Phil does as well), obviously (based on the comments for double) quite a few think that the two hands have significant similarities.

 

Your posts are usually welcome (you've had a couple of drunken posts that left me bewildered) but your status as a fine and successful player doesn't give you the right to think that everything is about you, or to go after another excellent poster with a personal attack.

 

And for a professional player to criticze the ability of an amateur player is rude.

[benlessard]

I think its bad to double RED at IMPs with borderline hands but good to do it at MP.

 

Here passing is very unlikely to cost a game while passing is more likely to lead to a + score than doubling.

[655321]

After the comments in this one:

 

Part Score battle

 

I'm surprised the thoughts in this thread are this subdued. Are the hands really that different? 

 

Well, yes they are. FWIW, I think that Q92 AQJ8 T82 AQ8 is a mandatory bid over 1♠, but I don't feel at all strongly about JTx 8xx AK9 AQTx over 1♦. I kind of like double, but I passed a similar hand at the table not long ago.

 

Even if the 2 situations were more similar I am not sure you would have a point.

Here are 2 hands that are much more similar:

1) KQx AQxx xx Kxxx

2) KQx AQxx Jx Kxxx

 

I would open hand (1) with 1♣, and hand (2) with 1NT. Are these hands really that different?

[Guest Jlall]

what makes you think that he was even referring to your post...

[snip]

but your status as a fine and successful player doesn't give you the right to think that everything is about you

You snip the part where he QUOTES ME, then asks me a direct question? And then he makes an ambiguous statement where it is not clear if it is STILL directed at me, since his LAST part of the SAME post WAS directed at me (SINCE HE QUOTED ME AND THEN ASKED ME SOMETHING), so my reply is to say "IS THIS STILL DIRECTED AT ME? I WILL ASSUME NOT..."

 

..... buy a clue please you idiot.

 

Your posts are usually welcome (you've had a couple of drunken posts that left me bewildered)

 

LOL, you accuse me of thinking it's all about me after someone quotes my post and replies directly to it and then makes an unclear statement to which I ask "is this still directed at me?" then you tell me that my posts are usually welcome? Thanks dude! You do realize it's not ALL ABOUT YOU right? Whether or not YOU welcome my posts is pretty irrelevant since this is a public message forum. Until I am banned my posts are welcome, that is how it works. But thanks for the support!

 

And for a professional player to criticze the ability of an amateur player is rude.

 

OK, I will concede that I am blatantly rude, but this is not what happened since Phil is not an amateur player.

Edited September 2, 2008 by inquiry

[mikeh]

.

xxx xxx x xxxxx, you snip the part where he QUOTES ME, then asks me a direct question? And then he makes an ambiguous statement where it is not clear if it is STILL directed at me, since his LAST part of the SAME post WAS directed at me (SINCE HE QUOTED ME AND THEN ASKED ME SOMETHING), so my reply is to say "IS THIS STILL DIRECTED AT ME? I WILL ASSUME NOT..."

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx buy a clue please you idiot.

 

Hey, it's good to know where you stand. Justin, one day maybe you will grow up. But, it looks like it will be a long, long time. Too bad.

Edited September 2, 2008 by inquiry