The shape is willing but the flesh is weak

[shevek]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sjt965hq76dc86543]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1C* (2D*) ?[/hv]

 

1♣ is 16+ any, 2♦ natural (1♦ would be something else)

 

Anyway, do you bid 2♠

a) if it's not forcing

b) if it's forcing

c) if it's game-forcing?

 

Do you double?

 

How do you play 2♠? Why?

[effervesce]

I'd bid 2♠ if non-forcing. If it's forcing or game-forcing, I prefer double.

[EarlPurple]

I don't particularly like Dbl which is too likely to get a bad penalty pass by partner.

 

I'd prefer to be able to pass and do something when partner re-opens, although game is likely if partner has a 4-card spade fit and no wasted values (i.e. nothing in diamonds except perhaps 4 small). There is however no reason why partner should have 4 spades.

[rbforster]

I play all actions as game forcing at this level, and wouldn't bid 2♠ under those conditions.

 

At all red, the opps may not be happy to play in 2♦ if my partner has lots of them. If partner doesn't have extra strength, we may not miss a game. If he does have extra strength, he'll have to act if 2♦ passes back to him (maybe with 2N given his likely diamond length?), in which case we can transfer and/or bid our spades then.

[awm]

It seems obvious that bad things can happen no matter what I do.

 

Most of the time, partner will have something like 16-18 balanced. If he has this hand, we might have game if he has virtually nothing in diamonds, but usually we will not have game. Of course, we might make 2♠, but if 2♠ is forcing I see no way to get there (I don't expect partner to balance with 16-18 flat unless he has ♦xx, which is unlikely). So assuming that 2♠ is forcing, I would pass. This should work well if partner finds a balancing call, and will get us a nice plus if partner has a strong diamond holding. If it passes out we have probably lost a partscore swing, but almost certainly not a game swing.

 

It seems obvious to bid 2♠ if it is not forcing. In my preferred methods, 2♥ is a transfer to spades and this is what I would bid (basically this gets us both the NF and forcing meanings; admittedly it is usually about 5+ hcp but I am willing to push slightly on these cards).

[EarlPurple]

One option in this situation is to treat the situation like an overcall of a strong 1NT and use Rubensohl-style responses, i.e. 2♠ is competitive and 2♥ would also be competitive. 2NT starts a relay sequence and other bids at the 3-level are usually stronger and are transfer bids.

 

As partner will often not have a balanced 16-18 there must be also a way for partner to show this by breaking the transfers, either to show a fit or to show a suit of his own.

 

Partner may have a strong hand with hearts and that may well be your place to play.

[jtfanclub]

I'm passing. Doesn't matter to me whether 2♠ is forcing or nonforcing.

 

If partner passes, I suspect we dodged a bullet. If he doubles (or bids NT), then I'm bidding spades. If he bids a suit, I'm in heaven.

 

It's clubs I'm afraid of missing. If I bid 2♠, and partner has bad spades (like a singleton), partner may insist on no trump when we do much better in clubs.

[Guest Jlall]

If you played 2S as NF this seems like the perfect hand for it, but I would never play such a convention. If it is F1 or GF I would just pass.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

not playing strong club:

 

a) sure, would I bid 2S after a 1NT opener got overcalled

with 2D? yes.

B) why?

c) see B)

 

Abstain, but I play NMF, so most likey a), not sure how they

work, I guess transfer responses is most likely the way to go,

your side has to start bidding their suits at some point in time.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

I pass in ALL cases. I have a partner, and my S are weak. If pd can reopen with a double I am well placed; if she can't, then I didn't want to bid on this hand anyway.

[EarlPurple]

The danger of passing is that the next hand will bounce up the level and it will then be harder to enter the auction.

 

If there is a bid available that shows shape but not values then it would be ideal. 2NT might be used as such a bid here. Unlikely you'd need it as natural, so it is useful as part of a good/bad sequence (2NT shows the bad hand whilst 3-level bids show values).

[akhare]

2♠ would be non-forcing in our methods, but this hands screams P. The losing case might when pard has no biddable suit and can't re-open with X because of shortness in one of the black suits, but c'est-la-bridge...