Biden?

[Lobowolf]

The speculation is over, as Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama announced that his running mate is Delaware's Joe Biden. Biden in turn announced that he would fully explain how and why the plagiarism hype that has occasionally since the 80's is completely overblown, in his forthcoming autobiography "The Audacity of Hope."

 

 

Speaking of plagiarism...that little paragraph comes almost verbatim from Scott Cram, whom I know through another (non-bridge) online forum; I just thought it was funny enough for a repeat.

 

On a more serious note...thoughts on Biden as a VP choice? I thought it was a good call, particularly from an electability standpoint. Probably a no-brainer after the Russia/Georgia thing, given the Foreign Relations Committee experience, but also a good fit in other respects. In Master Solvers Club terms, I think it's an easy top choice and would get a lot of "WTP?" responses.

[Apollo81]

If VA goes Republican and Obama loses because of that, the political result merchants out there will say he should have picked Tim Kaine.

[cherdano]

Clearly it was TMFA.

[Al_U_Card]

I gather they may be trying to exploit the "juxtaposition" effect.

 

Obama's carefully chosen verbiage and rhetoric vs. Biden's extemporaneous foot-in-mouth penchant.

[jtfanclub]

I gather they may be trying to exploit the "juxtaposition" effect.

 

Obama's carefully chosen verbiage and rhetoric vs. Biden's extemporaneous foot-in-mouth penchant.

That's true, Biden would make most speechifyers look good. Biden has great one liners, but he's speeches are terrible. And long. Really freakin' long.

 

But how could you not love Biden? Born in Hawaii, the son of a Kansas girl and a Kenyan exchange student, graduated Cum Laude, chosen as editor of the Harvard Law Review....

[USViking]

If VA goes Republican and Obama loses because of that, the political result merchants out there will say he should have picked Tim Kaine. 

 

I said exactly that on a political board last week

before Biden's selection was made public.

 

Biden is a run of the mill liberal Democrat from

a safely Democratic state. There is no chance

that he will win over enough undecided voters

to deliver any tossup state for the Democrats.

 

He may also be an outright liability due to his mouth.

 

In a strained supporting editorial David Brooks

of the NYT used the words ""idiotic" and "infamous"

to describe Biden's rhetorical history. Just what you

need in a VP candidate, huh? Talk about faint praise.

 

Virginia has been in a dead heat for months

according to the polls. Kaine is a popular governor

(57% approval rating including 49% among

Republicans). If the Republicans win Virginia

by under a 2% margin then I think it would be

reasonable to assume the results would have

been different had Kaine been on the ticket.

 

A moderate such as Kaine might also be a threat

elsewhere the break the near stranglehold

of the Republicans in the South. Not this year!

[JoAnneM]

I haven't heard much from Biden yet, but Michelle hit a homerun tonight, and Ted Kennedy was the best way possible to kick off the convention.

[kenberg]

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

[PassedOut]

I haven't heard much from Biden yet, but Michelle hit a homerun tonight, and Ted Kennedy was the best way possible to kick off the convention.

It was also nice to see Caroline Kennedy speak, and it was really fun to see the Obama daughters on the stage after Michelle's speech.

 

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally: fiscal discipline, a responsible foreign policy, personal freedom, and conservation of the earth.

 

I started watching on CNN, but quickly switched to C-SPAN to avoid the cacophony of blather and commercials and Wolf Blitzer's constant repetition of "the best political team on television." In comparison, the C-SPAN coverage was a joy to watch.

[luke warm]

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

given that biden said mccain would be a better president than obamba, and that he thought kerry should have picked mccain as VP in '80, i'd say they like one another

[Lobowolf]

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

given that biden said mccain would be a better president than obamba, and that he thought kerry should have picked mccain as VP in '80, i'd say they like one another

Don't expect that to last...some sharp about-faces coming up all around.

[Lobowolf]

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally

Funny...that's what's happened to me with the Democrats. I've been a "decline to state" for about 4 years now.

[jdonn]

I think Biden is an excellent choice. His state is not needed, but he has roots in Pennsylvania which is arguably the most important state. He appeals to large blocs that haven't been swarming to Obama, in particular the so called 'working class' voters. And perhaps most importantly of all is he can assuage concerns of people who think Obama doesn't have enough experience (particularly in foreign policy), while not changing anything about him that the people who liked him already liked (change blah blah blah).

 

I think Kaine would have been a particularly awful choice. So he is from Virginia, great. Is there a single other positive reason to pick him? All the other names being floated around were at least fine except Hillary of course. Probably my first choice would have been Nunn, who brings the experience especially in foreign policy, an important state that Obama has a good shot to win (Barrrrrrrr), and despite having experience hasn't been around butchering the country for the last 8 years.

[mike777]

I mentioned this before I just do not think people vote for VP rather than who is at the top of the ticket. Perhaps 40 or 80 years ago they did but not now. A VP selection can hurt but I have grave doubts it will turn a losing candidate into a winning one.

 

If Obama carries Penn. I firmly believe it will be because they think he will make a better leader than McCain not because Biden was born in Scranton Penn 65 years ago. Keep in mind Biden's great foreign policy judgement made him vote for War in Iraq, Obama's judgement told him to be against the war.

[PassedOut]

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally

Funny...that's what's happened to me with the Democrats. I've been a "decline to state" for about 4 years now.

That's certainly your right.

 

If your personal beliefs favor an irresponsible foreign policy, governmental interference in personal lives, polluting the earth, and stealing from our children and grandchildren, then you should definitely vote republican.

 

As for me, I considered myself a republican when the party advanced the opposite of those policies.

[jtfanclub]

I wanted Kathleen Sebelius to be Obama's veep.

 

Then I heard her talk today. OMG she's boring. I should have taped it in case I get insomnia. I like Biden better now.

 

No question in my mind, Mark Warner will be the 'party line' candidate in 2012 if Obama loses. Hillary shouldn't even bother trying to run.

[Lobowolf]

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally

Funny...that's what's happened to me with the Democrats. I've been a "decline to state" for about 4 years now.

That's certainly your right.

 

If your personal beliefs favor an irresponsible foreign policy, governmental interference in personal lives, polluting the earth, and stealing from our children and grandchildren, then you should definitely vote republican.

 

As for me, I considered myself a republican when the party advanced the opposite of those policies.

If your personal beliefs favor taking land from individuals and giving it to wealthy land developers, or ensuring that medical marijuana is illegal regardless of what a given state has to say about it, by all means vote Democrat. I also found the choice to make Al Sharpton a featured speaker at the 2004 DNC particularly disturbing and embarrassing, when I was a Democrat (though I did find amusing that the party chose a guy who had been found liable for slander to be the guy to talk about Bush's credibility).

 

As a Californian, the VAST majority of "interference with the personal lives" of most people I know comes from the left, not the right, in the form of high taxes and the nanny state, whether it's helmets, seat belts, cell phones, smoking, trans fats, and more.

 

I have numerous compaints about the right, too, but the left does a very poor job of distinguishing itself from the right on many of those issues (e.g. Clinton's signing of the Defense of Marriage Act, and almost-unilateral softness on illegal immigration).

[mike777]

Wow Hillary's speech just seem to say I support Obama because he is a Democrat and not Bush.....I think she said that ten times....rather luke warm.......

 

She did not say Obama is great because reasons one thru ten.......

 

Of course if you think McCain is a congenital liar and unbalanced it does not matter.

Of course if you think the Republican party could care less about the poor and the environment/destroying the earth or our civil rights it does not matter.

[PassedOut]

If your personal beliefs favor taking land from individuals and giving it to wealthy land developers, or ensuring that medical marijuana is illegal regardless of what a given state has to say about it, by all means vote Democrat. I also found the choice to make Al Sharpton a featured speaker at the 2004 DNC particularly disturbing and embarrassing, when I was a Democrat (though I did find amusing that the party chose a guy who had been found liable for slander to be the guy to talk about Bush's credibility).

 

As a Californian, the VAST majority of "interference with the personal lives" of most people I know comes from the left, not the right, in the form of high taxes and the nanny state, whether it's helmets, seat belts, cell phones, smoking, trans fats, and more.

 

I have numerous compaints about the right, too, but the left does a very poor job of distinguishing itself from the right on many of those issues (e.g. Clinton's signing of the Defense of Marriage Act, and almost-unilateral softness on illegal immigration).

Okay, I tend to agree with you on most of the issues you raised. I wish you had been clear about that in your first response.

 

To me, the bigger issues are the ones I mentioned, and they drive my vote these days. Thanks for clarifying your position.

[jtfanclub]

Wow Hillary's speech just seem to say I support Obama because he is a Democrat and not Bush.....I think she said that ten times....rather luke warm

Actually, it was more I support Obama because McCain would be a nightmare. What was her line, "No way, no how, no McCain"? She ripped McCain up one side and down the other. At one point, she said McCain wouldn't be another Bush...he's be worse.

 

If you want reasons to vote for Obama, you got way too many hours of them yesterday, and you'll get more on Thursday and Friday. If you were a Democrat who supported Hillary but were unconvinced because you didn't like Obama's church, or his inexperience, or his friends from 20 years ago, this speech was for you. She said that to claim to support her and then to not vote for Obama would be a betrayal of her, and a betrayal of her 25 years of work.

 

And if that speech didn't convince you, nothing will.

[mike777]

Wow Hillary's speech just seem to say I support Obama because he is a Democrat and not Bush.....I think she said that ten times....rather luke warm

Actually, it was more I support Obama because McCain would be a nightmare. What was her line, "No way, no how, no McCain"? She ripped McCain up one side and down the other. At one point, she said McCain wouldn't be another Bush...he's be worse.

 

If you want reasons to vote for Obama, you got way too many hours of them yesterday, and you'll get more on Thursday and Friday. If you were a Democrat who supported Hillary but were unconvinced because you didn't like Obama's church, or his inexperience, or his friends from 20 years ago, this speech was for you. She said that to claim to support her and then to not vote for Obama would be a betrayal of her, and a betrayal of her 25 years of work.

 

And if that speech didn't convince you, nothing will.

So you agree with me. The speech was all about her. :)

 

"She said that to claim to support her and then to not vote for Obama would be a betrayal of her, and a betrayal of her 25 years of work."

 

"Actually, it was more I support Obama because McCain would be a nightmare."

 

I rest my case, talk about lukewarm endorsement. Follow the logic. McCain=nightmare.....Obama...better than nightmare...you pick which is better....:)

 

Or....McCain is unbalanced...evil........cares less about the poor, loves pollution, destroyes civil rights./loves endless War and killing..........other choice Obama...you choose...:) Wow luke warm ....

 

 

 

Add in evil McCain and being a good Democrat...nothing about Obama except your quotes.....better than nightmare.........he follows my policy(hillary) of last 25 years.

[hrothgar]

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

given that biden said mccain would be a better president than obamba, and that he thought kerry should have picked mccain as VP in '80, i'd say they like one another

I don' think its fair to judge today's McCain based on comment made 6 months back...

 

The John McCain who is running for President this year bears no relation to the John McCain of years past. He has made major policy reversals on

 

1. Tax Cuts

2. Immigration

3. The role of the religious right

4. Drilling

5. Overturning Roe versus Wade (He has always been anti Abortion, but this "overturn Roe versus Wade" is new)

6. Ethanol

7. Gay Marriage

8. Torture

 

These aren't nuanced policy decision. McCain has no political center other than mindless belligerence, naked ambition, and "A noun, a verb, POW"

 

Years back, he was at least honest about the ambition part: Here's a quote from "Faith of My Fathers"

I didn't decide to run for president to start a national crusade for the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were some grand act of patriotism.  In truth, I wanted to be president because it had become my ambition to be president.  I was sixty-two years old when I made the decision and I thought it was my one shot at the prize... In truth, I'd had the ambition for a long time.

 

These days, of course, he is attacking Obama with lines like the following "“Behind all of these claims and positions by Senator Obama lies the ambition to be president."

 

I've never liked McCain much, dating back to the Keating 5 days. Even so, I do wish that Kerry had convinced him to be his running mate. I think that Kerry - McCain would have been a strong ticket. There was little danger of Kerry dying in office, and once the election was done McCain could have been shoved into a closet somewhere, and occasionally let out to attend State funerals. However, at these point in time he strikes me as being down-right deranged. He's coming across as brain-addled, he can't keep simple facts straight, he keeps babbling on about the fact that Georgia was once of the first Christian nations.

 

I guess there is a reason that he had to cut off the whole straight talk express...

[RichMor]

These aren't nuanced policy decision.  McCain has no political center other than mindless belligerence, naked ambition, and "A noun, a verb, POW"

 

Well I'm glad someone brought up the 'noun, verb, POW' topic.

 

I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like to be a POW in a hostile country. John McCain's courage in terrible circumstances does say something profound about his character. So I think it is legitimate and sensible for a voter to consider McCains character when considering him as a candidate.

 

But still..............

 

McCain is making more and more references to his POW experience to deflect honest criticism of his policies and pronouncements. He can't remember how many houses he and his wife own but he can 'remember a time when I didn't have a table or a chair'(rough quote).

 

I think McCain is disrespecting a large number of veterans, MIAs, and KIAs by cheapening their stories for his own political ends.

[jdonn]

John McCain's courage in terrible circumstances does say something profound about his character. So I think it is legitimate and sensible for a voter to consider McCains character when considering him as a candidate.

I'm sure to get blasted for this but pardon me, how does getting captured show character? If you live through the ordeal, you must have great character? What would happen if someone with bad character was captured, would they just topple over? It was surely an awful experience, I would never want it to happen to me, but being captured and tortured is NOT a positive attribute toward being president.

[hrothgar]

Wow Hillary's speech just seem to say I support Obama because he is a Democrat and not Bush.....I think she said that ten times....rather luke warm

Actually, it was more I support Obama because McCain would be a nightmare. What was her line, "No way, no how, no McCain"? She ripped McCain up one side and down the other. At one point, she said McCain wouldn't be another Bush...he's be worse.

 

If you want reasons to vote for Obama, you got way too many hours of them yesterday, and you'll get more on Thursday and Friday. If you were a Democrat who supported Hillary but were unconvinced because you didn't like Obama's church, or his inexperience, or his friends from 20 years ago, this speech was for you. She said that to claim to support her and then to not vote for Obama would be a betrayal of her, and a betrayal of her 25 years of work.

 

And if that speech didn't convince you, nothing will.

So you agree with me. The speech was all about her. :)

The speach was all about Hillary's supporters.

 

Clinton and Obama just went through a pretty bruising primary during which Hillary consistently attacked Obama on issues like readiness.

 

Its ludicrous to argue that Clinton should spin on a dime and suddenly start waxed rhapsodic about how Obama is the best thing since sliced bread. She would essentially be saying either

 

"I was lying then" OR "I am lying now". Either way, no one is going to buy it, least of all those supporters of Hillary who bought into that tripe...

 

What you can do is make a convincing case like the following: "No matter what you might think of Obama, McCain is 100 times worse"

 

This is consistent with the earlier messaging but still makes an important case to mobilize around Obama.