dcvetkov Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Opener A73,A2,KQJ4,KQJ7 opposite KQ542,97,AT5,AT7 Matchpoints. This was table auction 2NT - 3H3S - 5NT ( Pick a slam)6S It would be interested to see Strong Club Auctions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I would bid this as 2N-3♥-3♠-6♠ all pass. My impression is that this sequence shows a power raise to 6N with exactly 5 spades (since I didn't texas the hand). I would pass it as opener, even though 6N is obviously a better spot, because I do have potentially useful shortness. I would play 5N as a quantitative invitational to grand with 5 spades, not that it ever comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I do see a way to bid the grand, though, if you play certain methods. Transfer to spades, then use key-card gerber, and confirm all of the keycards without asking about the Q of spades. Partner (he of the 2N opener) now knows all of the key components of your hand, and can bid the grand himself if desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Opener A73,A2,KQJ4,KQJ7 opposite KQ542,97,AT5,AT7 Matchpoints. This was table auction 2NT - 3H3S - 5NT ( Pick a slam)6S It would be interested to see Strong Club Auctions too. 2nt=6nt MP KISS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 A73,A2,KQJ4,KQJ7 KQ542,97,AT5,AT7 You want a big C auction?1C 1H 9+ with S1S 2S short H2N 3D exactly 5233 shape3H 4D 5 AK controls4H 5D controls in S, D, C not H5H 5N Q of S?? = pick your slam. All of opener's bids are relays. You actually have room to find the J of S if resp happens to have it, but I was too lazy to post this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Opener A73,A2,KQJ4,KQJ7 opposite KQ542,97,AT5,AT7 Matchpoints. This was table auction 2NT - 3H3S - 5NT ( Pick a slam)6S It would be interested to see Strong Club Auctions too. Another big club auction with transfer positives: 1♣-1♥(A)1♠(:)-2♥©2♠(D)-3♦(E)6NT/7NT (F) A: 8+HCP and 5 spadesB: Confirms spades as trump (3+) and asks for controlsC: 5 controls (A=2; K=1) Since opener has 6 controls, he knows that only a king is missing.D: Trump askE: 5-card suit with 2 of the top 3 honorsF: Opener can count 12 top tricks in NT and either settle for that, or hope the spades will split or partner will have the jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 It is easy if Opener makes a three-card super-accept. Responder cues, Opener takes over, and he counts to 13. I think 3-card super-accepts after a 2NT opening are a good idea in the long run, for reasons like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Opener A73,A2,KQJ4,KQJ7 opposite KQ542,97,AT5,AT7 In my big club method: 1♣ - 1♥ (Spades, GF)1♠ (suit ask) - 2♦ (Exactly 5♠, 2 of top 3)2♥ - (relay ask in ♣) - 3♦ (Ace or Void)3♠ - clarifying - 4♣ - Ace4♦ (ask in ♦ - 5♣ Ace or Void5♥ - clatifiying - 5NT Ace6♣ - heart ask - 6♥ - 3rd round control (Qxx(x) or xx)? whatever Not sure if I really want to risk grand here, since you need 3-2 spades to make, with the ability to count 12 tricks on any spade split. Also, can have a much more compact auction if opener assumes the controls are aces...then the actuion continues 3♥ (♦ ask) - 4♦ (Ace or V)4♥ (♥ ask) - 5♦ (Ace or V)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Meckwell uses: 2N - 3♥3♠ - 5x not as EKCB but answering as though Opener key carded with 4N. I don't know if they can diagnose a 5-3 fit and then answer, but the solution to me seems to be that opener needs to be doing the asking here. I thought Kleinman's Yellow Rose would be able to handle this hand but it doesn't appear as though it can. Edit: I just ran this by Walter Johnson and he said Meckwell would bid 2N - 3♥3♠ - 5♣5♦ - 5♠7N (perhaps he meant 5N instead of 5♠ - I didn't press him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Edit: I just ran this by Walter Johnson and he said Meckwell would bid 2N - 3♥3♠ - 5♣5♦ - 5♠7N (perhaps he meant 5N instead of 5♠ - I didn't press him). I'm pretty sure they use the cheapest bid to deny the queen, which I also think is best. Clearly given that, south has nothing extra to show other than the queen, so I'm pretty sure they would bid 5♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 2♣ - 2♦2NT - 3♥4♣ - 4♦4NT - 5♣5♦ - 5NT7NT 2NT=20-21, 3♥=GF trf, 4m=cue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 am I missing something? do you really want to be in 7 missing JT98x of spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 am I missing something? do you really want to be in 7 missing JT98x of spades? Yes. Opener's LHO has that, but the poor chap also has KQJ10x in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 am I missing something? do you really want to be in 7 missing JT98x of spades? It is a myth that you need grand to be 75% or s.th. like that to be worth bidding. If you can be sure your opponents will be in a slam (for example, responder has a nice 13 count opposite a 2N opener), then 56% is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 am I missing something? do you really want to be in 7 missing JT98x of spades? It is a myth that you need grand to be 75% or s.th. like that to be worth bidding. If you can be sure your opponents will be in a slam (for example, responder has a nice 13 count opposite a 2N opener), then 56% is enough. Except for it's matchpoints. You'd want an estimate of how many will be in 6♠, 6NT, 7♠, 7NT, something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 am I missing something? do you really want to be in 7 missing JT98x of spades? It is a myth that you need grand to be 75% or s.th. like that to be worth bidding. If you can be sure your opponents will be in a slam (for example, responder has a nice 13 count opposite a 2N opener), then 56% is enough. Arend, where are you getting 56% from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Vul. Lose 17, Win 13, 17/30 ~ 56%NV. Lose 14, Win 11. 14/25 = 56% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Vul. Lose 17, Win 13, 17/30 ~ 56%NV. Lose 14, Win 11. 14/25 = 56% Apparently you need that heart nine to bid the grand when vulnerable, to get that necessary extra 0.6667% edge. Shoot! That only gives you an extra 0.39% chance! Maybe the 10 would have been enough. Or, a stiff honor. Maybe it is better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 1♣* - 1♥*; any 16+ - 8+ w/ 2+ controls and 5+ spades1♠* - 2♠*; relay - single suited with short hearts or 72222nt* - 3♦*; relay - 52333♥* - 4♦*; relay - 5 controls4♥* - 5♦*; relay - 1 of top 2 ♠, 1 of top 2 ♦, 1 of top 2 ♣, 0 or 2 top 2 ♥5♥* - 5NT*; relay - Q♠ but no Q♦7nt (if ♠ split 3-2 or responder has the J♠ this makes) over 3♦ could also continue3♠* - 4♣*; key card spades - 3 or 0 key cards4♥* - 5♠*; Q ask? - Q♠ but no K's7nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 am I missing something? do you really want to be in 7 missing JT98x of spades? It is a myth that you need grand to be 75% or s.th. like that to be worth bidding. If you can be sure your opponents will be in a slam (for example, responder has a nice 13 count opposite a 2N opener), then 56% is enough. Except for it's matchpoints. You'd want an estimate of how many will be in 6♠, 6NT, 7♠, 7NT, something else. Oh, matchpoints! Given that the decision is only between 6N and and 7N, you actually need a chance of50% + 1/2 the percentage of those in 6S or lower - 1/2 the percentage of those in 7SE.g. if 30% are in 6S and 10% in 7S, you would need a 60% chance of making for 7N to be worthwhile. [Hmm, I guess I am ignoring the cases where you go down 2 in 7S but only 1 in 7N.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelm Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I rather be in 6S here and live with the eventual poor result.... at least I save my brain from those complicated process on how to get to a bad Grand :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Very interesting discussion. I thought I would post this email about this thread. "I'll remind everyone of my previous emails last month from vegas. In one of the toughest MP field in the country (finals of the 3 day LM pairs), bidding to a cold small slam, where the grand would make on non 4-0 trumps, was worth over 90% of the MPs.On a second board, bidding to a small slam needing trumps not 5-0, where the grand needed 3-2 trumps, was worth 98% of the MPs. Keep those numbers in mind when you're stretching to a grand!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Very interesting discussion. I thought I would post this email about this thread. "I'll remind everyone of my previous emails last month from vegas. In one of the toughest MP field in the country (finals of the 3 day LM pairs), bidding to a cold small slam, where the grand would make on non 4-0 trumps, was worth over 90% of the MPs.On a second board, bidding to a small slam needing trumps not 5-0, where the grand needed 3-2 trumps, was worth 98% of the MPs. Keep those numbers in mind when you're stretching to a grand! Alex" This is irrelevant. On the actual pair of hands in this thread, at least 95% of the LMP field would be in a slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I rather be in 6S here and live with the eventual poor result.... at least I save my brain from those complicated process on how to get to a bad Grand :lol: You should never want to be in 6♠; Keycard blackwood with no other special agreements lets you count 12 top tricks in NT with no trick one ruffs or bad splits to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 ok no one says this straight out but it seems the assumption is that playing 6nt on my simple auction 2nt=6nt on this OP will not get you 70% let alone some lower but still good score. Hence these auctions to the grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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