vl Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Thanks for providing a great program.The table display in the Flash version seems small. There are three rows of players in the "Who's Online" list, almost 1/4 the full width of the screen! How many players want to see that many while playing or watching? Yes, we can shrink the width of the list, but that does not increase the size of the table display, it just moves it to the right. I pity users who have a small monitor or laptop, especially if they have any visual problem. Could it be an option to have a larger view of the table with less unessential space at the sides, top and bottom of the table? When kibitzing, I like the list of interesting tables, but wish it indicated which language was most commonly used at that table. I miss the bridge movie.Regards,VL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 The table surface has a range of possible "aspect ratios" (that is, the ratio between the number of horizontal and vertical pixels). The software tries to be as smart as possible in terms of making the table surface fit into whatever space is available, but it restricts itself to an aspect ratio within this range. Increasing this range in order to take better advantage of the availability of additional horizontal space will not really help with respect to usability. The main reason is that it is really vertical space, not horizontal space, that is important. For example, most players like the idea of the cards being as big as possible, but increasing horizontal space does not help in this regard. This is because the cards themselves have their own aspect ratios (ie their shape is that of real playing cards). Additional horizontal space would allow us to make the cards bigger in the horizontal dimension, but that would not help unless we also had space to make them bigger in the vertical direction. Increasing the vertical space available means fewer lines of text in the chat area. I suspect that most of our users would not want to do that, but those who do have the option of given the table surface more vertical space (in a similar manner to the way in which you describe giving it more horizontal space) while allocating less vertical space to chat. Here is a good and little-known trick for increasing vertical screen space: after logging in to BBO with the Flash client, hit the F11 key on your keyboard. I am not sure if this works in all browsers and operating systems. It definitely works if you run Internet Explorer under Windows. As to the value of always displaying a list of friends who are logged in, I believe it is the case that for a lot of BBO members the social aspect of playing or kibitzing is important. Probably a lot of these people appreciate easy access to the list of friends. That being said, probably more BBO users appreciate being able to see all of their results (and to be able to see the hands they have played) on the right side of the screen. As you have probably seen, this information is presented instead of friends/hosts/stars/kibitzers if you click "my results" instead of "who's online" in the top right of the screen. I hope this helps to explain some of the reasoning behind some of our design decisions. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 I understand aspect ratios. And I haven't used the flash client - but it sounds similar to bbo tv in layout. I prefer the windows client for vugraph - simply because the cards are bigger and I can't get the cards to be bigger on bbo tv. In short, I don't care about the aspect ratio - I just want to make the cards bigger. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 I understand aspect ratios. And I haven't used the flash client - but it sounds similar to bbo tv in layout. I prefer the windows client for vugraph - simply because the cards are bigger and I can't get the cards to be bigger on bbo tv. In short, I don't care about the aspect ratio - I just want to make the cards bigger. Nick OK so try these suggestions: - use the "big cards" option- hit F11- if you don't care about chat then make the chat area smaller- make sure you are running the most recent version (you can guarantee that by using the yellow link on www.bridgebase.com) The higher your screen resolution above 1024x768, the bigger the cards will be in the Flash client versus the Windows client. Even at 1024x768 you should be able to make the cards bigger in the Flash version via the suggestions above. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Thanks Fred, I tried the flash client - it is indeed similar to bbo tv. Big cards option helps a little.Getting rid of half the chat AND most of the "my results" does make the card size/clarity acceptable. F11 does nothing if the window is not maximised already. And, if it is, it gets rid of the taskbar and window title bar - unfortunately it also overlays the top 25% or so of what would be the display with browser buttons and unwanted rubbish, so is unusable - this is IE 6 on XP(2). I'm not putting IE 7 on it - the last laptop I tried that on couldn't cope and I ended up putting Firefox on it instead. I would put the screen res above 1024x768 - but that is the limit on this 2 year old laptop. Frankly I still like the windoze client better - bigger cards without having to squash the chat - and more things available to do. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I'm having the same sort of problems as Nick.My flash BBO only uses part screen and F11 has no effect, the windows are small and cluttered. I'd be happy to use Flash if I could but for now Im back on BBOWin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Nick, Your mention of "browser buttons" suggests to me that you might not be running the Flash version in a popup window. If you can see things like the Back and Home buttons in your browser then your browser itself itself is hogging a lot of vertical space (and thus making all of the interface elements of the Flash client smaller than they need to be). The yellow link on our home page should launch the Flash client in a popup window that has a minimal amount of browser-related overhead. By the way, even if you could increase your screen resolution it would not help. What you would see: - the cards in the Flash version would appear to you to be about the same size as the are now- the cards in the Windows version would appear to you to get smaller- the cards in the Flash version would look nicer (because they would be made up of more pixels therefore more detail) It is really only people who have more than 1024x768 already (ie the Windows client does not fill up their entire screens) who will notice that the cards in the Flash version are bigger (and much nicer-looking) than those that they see in the Windows version. For example, I have a big monitor that is set to a high resolution (1920x1200 or something). The cards I see when running the Flash version as a full screen application are about twice as big as those that appear in the Windows version. As for "more things to do" in the Windows version, that won't be the case for too much longer and there are already a lot of cool new things you can do in the Flash version that are not available in the Windows version (and probably never will be). Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 I'm having the same sort of problems as Nick.My flash BBO only uses part screen and F11 has no effect, the windows are small and cluttered. I'd be happy to use Flash if I could but for now Im back on BBOWin If you want to send me a screenshot of what it is that you see (fred@bridgebase.com), I might be able to explain how to fix it. In theory, if you use the yellow link on our home page, the popup window that the Flash version resides in should fill up your entire screen. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Nick, Your mention of "browser buttons" suggests to me that you might not be running the Flash version in a popup window. If you can see things like the Back and Home buttons in your browser then your browser itself itself is hogging a lot of vertical space (and thus making all of the interface elements of the Flash client smaller than they need to be). The yellow link on our home page should launch the Flash client in a popup window that has a minimal amount of browser-related overhead. Ah, Fred, but it is a pop up window. Started from the BBO homepage as you instructed. Also, it is not a case of the pop up becoming transparent in the top corner and me seeing the browser buttons from the window underneath as they would have a different, less squashed layout. For example, I have a big monitor that is set to a high resolution (1920x1200 or something). The cards I see when running the Flash version as a full screen application are about twice as big as those that appear in the Windows version. Ah :) But can you sit your big monitor on your lap and sit in your favourite armchair with it! As for "more things to do" in the Windows version, that won't be the case for too much longer and there are already a lot of cool new things you can do in the Flash version that are not available in the Windows version (and probably never will be). Yeah - the "more things to do" coming is good of course. But I've been in the computer industry long enough to know what that really means. It sounds like you're angling to maybe de-support the windows client at some point in the future (well I would if I were you - why support two sets of client software - makes no sense in the long run). I'll be content enough for that to happen if I can just have bigger, clearer cards without having to squash the rest of the application. For my own benefit I wrote a java app to connect to the University of Alberta poker server a year or two back. I made the cards quite noddy and diagramatic - and they resized with the window - so they could become quite ridiculously shaped if you wanted a ridiculous window. Worked fine for me. I don't need the cards to look like real cards or to be shaped like real cards - I just want the numbers and suit symbols to be clear. Nick P.S. Talking of poker, one option some poker sites have is to have the suit colour similar to this forum - orange for diamonds and green for clubs. That would go a long way to fixing this - it is mainly the suit symbols that are somewhat indistinct with the central window at its default size/settings at 1024 resolution. That should be really easy for you to add as an option in flash surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 For example, I have a big monitor that is set to a high resolution (1920x1200 or something). The cards I see when running the Flash version as a full screen application are about twice as big as those that appear in the Windows version. Ah :) But can you sit your big monitor on your lap and sit in your favourite armchair with it! Actually my setup is even better (for me at least) :) I sit in my favorite comfortable chair, have a giant monitor on a desk nearby, and put my wireless keyboard and mouse in my lap if I feel like it (usually I feel like putting them on the desk). Turns out there is a desktop computer that drives the whole thing, but it could just as easily be a laptop. For about 15 years I used laptops for everything, but a couple of years ago I noticed that my vision was starting to get worse (apparently this tends to happen to people when they get to be 40ish) so I bought a big monitor to connect to my computer (which was a laptop at the time). This turned out to be a really good move. Not only did my eyes appreciate it, I believe that my productivity improved as a result. Seriously, as a formally totally dedicated laptop person, I suggest you buy yourself a nice present. Big monitors have gone down a lot in price over the past couple of years. And look how big the cards are for me now! http://dev.bridgebase.com/fred/cards.gif The quality of this image is less than what I normally see (done in the interest of keeping the size of the graphics file down). Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 For about 15 years I used laptops for everything, but a couple of years ago I noticed that my vision was starting to get worse (apparently this tends to happen to people when they get to be 40ish) so I bought a big monitor to connect to my computer (which was a laptop at the time). This turned out to be a really good move. Not only did my eyes appreciate it, I believe that my productivity improved as a result. Seriously, as a formally totally dedicated laptop person, I suggest you buy yourself a nice present. Big monitors have gone down a lot in price over the past couple of years. Yuh, might take your advice. I'm around 10 years older than you and started needed reading glasses about 4 years ago. The option to have diamonds/clubs in different colours is still a good one though... Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 The option to have diamonds/clubs in different colours is still a good one though... Thanks - maybe in a future version (but not the next version which is now in the final testing stages). Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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