Guest Jlall Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 x KQJTx xx Axxxx r/r imps. 1N p 3N to you. It is a knockout match against an evenly matched team, you know if the auction goes the same at the other table your counterpart will not double (she is their client). You know your opps and your teammates play the same NT range. You know RHO is a pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmunte1 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I will double, asking partner to lead worse major. Double has more ways to win than to lose. Of course sometimes you'll be punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 For an Obcessive Compulsive Doubler like me, this is a WTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Incidently, I'd never take the same seat as my opponents client, but leave it to a weaker player, like partner. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I would certainly double. I hope this is not because I'm over-eager to use conventions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcurt Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Light it up. Loses when partner has no 4th round diamond stopperGains (a lot) when partner would make a disaster lead (very likely looking at our hand) and we could otherwise beat them In theory this is correct. In practice this action never seems to work for me as advertised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Whenever I am thinking about making a penalty double of their game, I just ask myself what would jdonn do??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 You, let them redouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Whenever I am thinking about making a penalty double of their game, I just ask myself what would jdonn do??? Lol did you like when you doubled some game yesterday and she asked me if that promised her suit, and I kinda just started laughing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Double. I'll never get a heart lead otherwise. This could be a bloodbath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Agree with Dbl. They might have 9 top tricks, but them's the risks. It's worth it if you knock the vuln game. Without a dbl, pard is almost certainly making a lead that will help declarer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I guess it depends on my agreements about double. As I've discussed this with Phil (it would definitely mean lead your shorter major), I would double. With someone whom I haven't discussed it, I'd be more hesitant, but still think double would be our best shot at a set, so double it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Double. I'll never get a heart lead otherwise. This could be a bloodbath. I agree, I'm just not sure for which side. But I still double. Maybe one day I'll learn. Certainly partner is most likely to lead a spade without it, and that won't be very helpful to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 I'll never get a heart lead otherwise.I disagree. I think double is a mistake. If RHO has a strongish balanced hand than partner is broke and will be able to find the h lead all by himself, unless hes got something like 3H and Qx of clubs. If RHO has a long running D suit (likely imo) than X is just too dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcurt Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Something not yet mentioned is that the pot odds are pretty good. Let's assume -630 from the other table (of course if the normal defense beats this it's hard to see how double can hurt unless partner leads the wrong short suit). No double -> pushDouble (and no redouble) 10 tricks -> lose 8 9 tricks -> lose 3 8 tricks -> win 13 7 tricks -> win 15 (I admit this is a rare outcome) Double and redouble 10 tricks -> (-1400) lose 13 9 tricks -> (-1000) lose 8 8 tricks -> (+400) win 14 7 tricks -> (+1000) win 17 Of course you need to assign probabilities to these outcomes and you really need the implied odds factoring RHOs ability to redouble with various hands but you only need to go from never beating it to beating it a little less than half the time even if RHO only redoubles when it's correct to do so. Finally, in a Swiss match you might need better odds on the beat because match length and the VP table both favor frequency of gain over size of gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 At IMPs double is automatic for me here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Double and redouble10 tricks -> (-1400) lose 139 tricks -> (-1000) lose 88 tricks -> (+400) win 147 tricks -> (+1000) win 17 Are you saying thhat you plan to pass the redouble ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 If we have a clear agreement that double asks partner to lead his weaker major I double. Pass otherwise. It does seem very likely that without a heart lead 3NT will make easily, so doubling means we beat 3NT whenever it can be beaten. I think beating 3NT will be a lot more common than RHO having 6 or 7 diamonds and successfully redoubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcurt Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Double and redouble10 tricks -> (-1400) lose 139 tricks -> (-1000) lose 88 tricks -> (+400) win 147 tricks -> (+1000) win 17 Are you saying thhat you plan to pass the redouble ? I'd need to be at the table to decide, but I would definitely not auto-pull. Note that the redouble is going to gain 5 IMPs in my scenario when right and cost 1 or 2 IMPs in my scenario when wrong. Therefore in theory RHO should almost always redouble, and we should almost always leave it in since the redouble doesn't give us much new information about RHOs hand. In my experience very few people would auto redouble on an odds basis, so I would consider pulling if I got a read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 My average of overtricks when i XX a lightner 3Nt is something close to 2 overtricks. So with a 5-5 is strongly suggest you to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 My average of overtricks when i XX a lightner 3Nt is something close to 2 overtricks. So with a 5-5 is strongly suggest you to run. LOL sorry but what a load of bull. You AVERAGE a trick short of slam in 3NTXX? So you are often making slam on auctions like 1NT 3NT counting only the hands where your opponent has great defense! Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcurt Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 My average of overtricks when i XX a lightner 3Nt is something close to 2 overtricks. So with a 5-5 is strongly suggest you to run. Then you're not redoubling frequently enough -- or you judge really really well. Anyway say we pull and reach an 8-card fit, and (somewhat optimistically) partner has 1 trick and 1 tempo (ie can prevent 1 tap) in the pointed suits. In clubs the best we can do then is lose the top tricks and take our hearts, -500. On a bad day, we're going to find hearts where we are taking 6 tricks since we make no long clubs, -1100. Pulling looks very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 My average of overtricks when i XX a lightner 3Nt is something close to 2 overtricks. So with a 5-5 is strongly suggest you to run. LOL sorry but what a load of bull. You AVERAGE a trick short of slam in 3NTXX? So you are often making slam on auctions like 1NT 3NT counting only the hands where your opponent has great defense! Well done.My suspicion is that his sample size is pretty small :P I've only played 3N xx'd twice at imps, and my average is 0.5 undertricks B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 If X was agreed for partner to lead their shortest major, I would X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Here's a funny hand from a match between the US and Canadian Women's Teams for Beijing that was played in a match on BBO yesterday: [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sa74h93dk1095cakj3&w=skqj32ha76d732c76&e=s985hkqj42d86c985&s=s106h1085daqj4cq1042]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Canadian W doubled, American counterpart didn't. Result 3NTX= and 3NT -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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