The light brigade

[nige1]

[hv=d=w&v=e&s=skt65htd972caqj96]133|100|Scoring: IMP

_P (4♥) _P (_P)

??[/hv]

[inquiry]

26 zar points and four spades? Easy 1♣ opening bid.

[Guest Jlall]

yep, double this.

[pclayton]

Double. So many ways for it to be right.

[gwnn]

double unless pard noticeably tanked

[655321]

Double. Having passed originally, I don't think passing out 4♥ with this hand is even a logical alternative.

 

I would open (at this vulnerability only), and still double 4♥ when it comes back.

[Guest Jlall]

Double.  Having passed originally, I don't think passing out 4♥ with this hand is even a logical alternative.

 

I would open (at this vulnerability only), and still double 4♥ when it comes back.

I think reopening X after opening is way too much and kinda ridiculous. If you can make anything partner would have Xed himself (which he can do much lighter when you have opened already), and LHO can bid 4M with much stronger hands as an overcaller than an opener. Doubling caters to partner having them beat and having a hand unsuitable to double immediately (ie heart values) but I can't think this is more likely than them just making possibly with overtricks.

[andy_h]

Easy double now. Good things can happen.

[brianshark]

Double seems fine now that your original pass limited your hand. It's not quite an opener for me, though I guess it depends on the system and partnership bidding style.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, and I am certainly not opening 1C.

 

I can be convinced, that double is better than pass,

but I would have passed, so pass it is.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[SoTired]

Pass originally. Dbl now but risky. Preempts work.

[Finch]

Pass on the first round unless opening is systemic.

Double now seems completely obvious, what do you think the call shows if not (roughly) this hand?

[cjames]

I would have opened this hand in a basic 2/1 system with my partner, but when I passed double seems like a clear action. Agree with the others, just too many ways for it to work out.

[jdonn]

I would open (at this vulnerability only), and still double 4♥ when it comes back.

Wow. Put that in your notes so you can shove it in the committee's face if partner tanks and tries to bar you! But certainly I double as a PH.

[xcurt]

I would open (at this vulnerability only), and still double 4♥ when it comes back.

Wow. Put that in your notes so you can shove it in the committee's face if partner tanks and tries to bar you! But certainly I double as a PH.

And when partner shotguns a pass and this hand checks it out?

 

This is a good hypothetical example of why committees have to be very wary of claims that "we always do ..." when the suggested action is far from "normal."

[nige1]

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=sj9hkq7532dak63ct&w=skt65htd972caqj96&e=saq743ha94dj84ck3&s=s82hj86dqt5c87542]399|300|Scoring: IMP

We are told

"It was a team match (10 bards per session) and after North bid 4♥ East asked if it were the last board of the session. It was. He then said he hadn't noted the scores and asked for the official score sheet (scored by North). It was given to him and he proceeded to copy all of the scores. This took (estimate of NS) between 1-1/2 and 2 minutes. He then glanced at his hand again and passed. He had probably had about 20 seconds to look at his hand before he asked for the official score sheet."

The bidding continued

_P (4♥) _P (_P)

_X (_P) 4♠ (5♥)

_P (_P) _X (_P)

_P (XX) AP

4♥XX-2 = -600

NS call the director. Ruling? [/hv]

[jtfanclub]

XX is a clear double shot. If they were so certain of making it, then what was the problem?

 

Without the XX, this one looks tough. I'd probably have to circulate the hand to determine if pass was an LA.

[jdonn]

XX is a clear double shot. If they were so certain of making it, then what was the problem?

 

Without the XX, this one looks tough. I'd probably have to circulate the hand to determine if pass was an LA.

It doesn't even seem to me like there was a hesitation, so I wouldn't make it to the part where I point out passing is not an LA.

[cherdano]

XX is a clear double shot.  If they were so certain of making it, then what was the problem?

 

Without the XX, this one looks tough.  I'd probably have to circulate the hand to determine if pass was an LA.

It doesn't even seem to me like there was a hesitation, so I wouldn't make it to the part where I point out passing is not an LA.

Uhm, East looked at his hand for 20 seconds before asking for the scores.

Even ignoring that, doesn't his action suggest that his choice might depend on the state of the match?

[jdonn]

XX is a clear double shot.  If they were so certain of making it, then what was the problem?

 

Without the XX, this one looks tough.  I'd probably have to circulate the hand to determine if pass was an LA.

It doesn't even seem to me like there was a hesitation, so I wouldn't make it to the part where I point out passing is not an LA.

Uhm, East looked at his hand for 20 seconds before asking for the scores.

Even ignoring that, doesn't his action suggest that his choice might depend on the state of the match?

Maybe it's not clear, it looks to me like that 20 seconds starts when the auction began, not when north bid 4♥. If it was after north opened that's a tough call since "probably about 20 seconds" will surely be claimed by EW to be the appropriate 10 or so seconds, and east's hand seems like such an easy pass over 4♥ to me that I would probably believe them. Although if this is the sort of game where north is opening 4♥ on that, then who the heck knows.

 

I am not influenced by anything else east did. His questions do not seem related to the current hand to me, just to his own curiosity. But maybe I have to be there.

[skjaeran]

Pass or 1♣ initially are both OK with me.

 

After passing this is an easy double IMO. If I'm not doubling with this I'll just as well put in my notes that the auction p (4♥) p (p) X doesn't exist.

[peachy]

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=sj9hkq7532dak63ct&w=skt65htd972caqj96&e=saq743ha94dj84ck3&s=s82hj86dqt5c87542]399|300|Scoring: IMP

We are told

"It was a team match (10 bards per session) and after North bid 4♥ East asked if it were the last board of the session. It was. He then said he hadn't noted the scores and asked for the official score sheet (scored by North). It was given to him and he proceeded to copy all of the scores. This took (estimate of NS) between 1-1/2 and 2 minutes. He then glanced at his hand again and passed. He had probably had about 20 seconds to look at his hand before he asked for the official score sheet."

The bidding continued

_P (4♥) _P (_P)

_X (_P) 4♠ (5♥)

_P (_P) _X (_P)

_P (XX) AP

4♥XX-2 = -600

NS call the director. Ruling? [/hv]

Wrong time to copy score when it is your turn to call. He had already taken 20 seconds to think, now he took another however-long-it-took-to-copy-all-the-scores to think about it some more, and then Pass. Copying scores between hands is fine, while dummy probably fine, but not when it is your turn to call! If he was so interested in scores, he could have written them down after each hand. This writing chore while it is your turn to call could easily be interpreted as hiding the fact you needed more time to think about what you wanted to bid/call. Someone should have called the TD while East's housekeeping was in process.

 

However, the reopening Dbl is normal - close to automatic by an originally passed hand - that even if there had been UI from the break of tempo, it should be allowed. The Rdbl so much in error that the result should stand. Just my two cents...

[mikeh]

I don't think that the tanker's actions, no matter how intended/interpreted, had any impact on the result. The overwhelming majority of good players reopen with double. Add to that the fact that the final result was to a large degree the result of a stupid (and I mean, stupid) redouble. It seems to have been a classic double-shot and I think that committees should be on the alert to make it clear that this kind of tactic is invoked at considerable risk.