team member disqualified,

[jonottawa]

If no effort was made to communicate the situation to a director/organizer of the event, then if the player is determined to be ineligible, disqualify the team.

 

If the situation was communicated to a director/organizer of the event but not adjudicated until later, then threaten to sue, etc.

 

Full disclosure, etc. I think it's somewhat pathetic that this player even considered playing in this event and utterly pathetic that he did so without getting a ruling on his eligibility aforehand.

[pigpenz]

Well, black, like silver, are a ploy to get players in a specific venue. I was once in NYC at a regional when they announced the unit's mini-mckenney winners. Rosenberg, Fallenius, Lev and Zia all won their category and we hadn't even gotten to the top category which was won by a Becker. I wouldn't be surprised if Rosenberg won a national event or two before he became a life master.

I cut my teeth at the Corhusker Bridge Club in Omaha, NE. There have been several players who have won national events from there. Probably the best player is still sitting around 6,000 MP and only about 56 yrs old but doesnt play much any more at regionals. Then you can take someone like Alan Stout who has about 30,000 MPpoints but never really went after a national event till he was about 55.

[TimG]

Full disclosure, etc. I think it's somewhat pathetic that this player even considered playing in this event and utterly pathetic that he did so without getting a ruling on his eligibility aforehand.

From the opening post:

apparently doesn't play a ton during last few decades but playing more last few years.

It would be surprising if this player never entered an event where masterpoints were not used for flighting, bracketing or seeding. I would not find it surprising if he did for this event what ACBL has been doing for him right along: treated him as having some number of masterpoints less than 5000. Before he is deemed "pathetic" we ought to get the full story about how ACBL has treated him for flighting, bracketing, seeding purposes in the past. He may well have had good reason to expect that he was eligible for the 0-5000 event.

[xcurt]

On a related note, did I read correctly in the NABC bulletins that all NABC+ events require LM rank to enter now? As someon who qual'ed for the finals of two NABCs before making LM I take issue with that.

[jtfanclub]

"Dear ACBL:"

Dude, that was awesome. Damn, if we ever have a HOF for posts, that one goes in.

[matmat]

On a related note, did I read correctly in the NABC bulletins that all NABC+ events require LM rank to enter now? As someon who qual'ed for the finals of two NABCs before making LM I take issue with that.

as someone who will never reach the lofty rank of LM, I take issue with that too...

[Mbodell]

On a related note, did I read correctly in the NABC bulletins that all NABC+ events require LM rank to enter now?  As someon who qual'ed for the finals of two NABCs before making LM I take issue with that.

They didn't in Vegas. I played (at least if you could call it playing. The second session was my worst bridge the whole week in Vegas) in the mixed BAM NABC event in spite of the fact that I didn't make life master until this Tuesday night's club STAC game. And one of our teammates only had 100 points. We were, shall we say, not a threat and had to laugh when asked if we needed to consider getting seeded but we certainly had no problems entering other than team mates needing to stow the mobile phones somewhere.

[mycroft]

What you probably read was the (long-standing) requirement to be a member of the ACBL to play in NABC+ events. Which is why B-Z have ACBL numbers (which start with a number, I bet; 50 silver? 50 black? What are these colour things? :-)

 

There used to be a requirement for 100 points to enter the Spingold and Vanderbilt, along with the "LM or equivalent" for the LM pairs and the B/R/S Ribbon Q to enter those events. But it looks like that's gone.

[rigour6]

Can't you sell a few gold points for a bunch of silver points on eBay or somewhere?

 

In Denmark there are official exchange rates. And I saw on someones profile that she was interested in trading some of her master points for air miles.

lol, this would help with a conversation I have occasionally held with Muggles.

 

Them: Oh, how did your bridge tournament go?

Me: Great, actually! We won one of the events.

Them: Oh, really? (showing more than polite interest) What did you win?

Me: Umm, well, at tournament points you win points of a certain colour, depending on the level of the tournament. This was an x tournament, so we won y colour points.

Them: (trying to stay with the tour) Oh, yes, I see. And what can you get with the points?

Me: Umm....

[jtfanclub]

Me: Great, actually! We won one of the events.

Them: Oh, really? (showing more than polite interest) What did you win?

Probably my biggest peeve with the ACBL (I kid you not): no trophies, no prize money.

 

Used to be that trophies were commonplace. I don't know what happened.

[jdonn]

Me:  Great, actually!  We won one of the events.

Them:  Oh, really? (showing more than polite interest) What did you win?

Probably my biggest peeve with the ACBL (I kid you not): no trophies, no prize money.

 

Used to be that trophies were commonplace. I don't know what happened.

I think what happened is people realized they weren't 9 year olds playing little league baseball...

[SoTired]

Bad taste, removed. Edited August 13, 2008 by SoTired

[jtfanclub]

I think what happened is people realized they weren't 9 year olds playing little league baseball...

You're right, there's no trophy for the World Series, for the NFL Championship, for bowling leagues, for golf tournaments, for NASCAR...even chess has a plaque.

[rigour6]

Well, I see we're on to another topic now. So let me go off on the tangent with you:

 

All the rage here has been to give out T-shirts. Same problem. After a while, how many bridge T-shirts do you need?

 

Our last Regional, we supplemented the T-shirts with wine, gave people a choice. I don't know if the wine was any good, but the label certified that the owner of the wine was the winner at the Regional, etc, so it was a type of trophy, even if unopened.

 

Great success.

[matmat]

I think what happened is people realized they weren't 9 year olds playing little league baseball...

You're right, there's no trophy for the World Series, for the NFL Championship, for bowling leagues, for golf tournaments, for NASCAR...even chess has a plaque.

sports people ARE 9 years old... have you ever heard them speak?

[jdonn]

I think what happened is people realized they weren't 9 year olds playing little league baseball...

You're right, there's no trophy for the World Series, for the NFL Championship, for bowling leagues, for golf tournaments, for NASCAR...even chess has a plaque.

If there was no trophy given to the winner of the world series, do you think that would be the biggest pet peeve for them?

 

Also you said they should be "commonplace". It's like you think the winner of each game should get one.

[jtfanclub]

Also you said they should be "commonplace". It's like you think the winner of each game should get one.

No, I said they used to be commonplace.

 

I'd say one 1st & 2nd trophy set per tournament would be sufficient, either for one big event or for most masterpoints over the course of the tournament. And as others have pointed out, a 'trophy' doesn't have to literally be a trophy. If you don't like 'em, don't keep 'em. Not a big deal.

[Mbodell]

Outside the US I know people do have prize money associated with bridge events. In some Australian bridge events you can get a decent ROI on your entry fees in prize money.

 

In the US I know some were experimenting with money bridge tournaments but I think the lack of luck in bridge, as opposed to say poker, makes it not as popular.

[Gerben42]

You gotta have prizes for bridge tournaments. Otherwise, people wouldn't participate around here, anyway.

 

They don't have to be cash prizes, other prizes are fine if they are nice (i.e. not just wine).

 

Things I've won at tournaments other than cash include but are not limited too:

 

* Wine (some bad, some good)

* Perfume

* Chocolate

* Cheese (tournament in one of the Dutch cheese capitals, Alkmaar)

* Suitcase

* Pyjamas (yes, really!)

* Hotel coupon

* Dinner coupon

* Bridge books

* Knife set

* Free entry to same tournament in the following year

[easy]

Frankly if a team included a player that was not elegible to play in an event i would be forced to disqualify the entire team. Even if the team did not know that the player was inelegible the fact is : he participated in (and won) matches in which he was ineligible to play . Thus the team benefited from the play of an inelegible player.

Was the player really inelegible? Did the conditions of contest indicate that a person that has represented their country should petition the acbl to determine how many points their level of expertise dictated? Is it a given that the above mentioned petition should be made regardless of the conditions of contest ?I dont know the answer but i guess since the acbl subsequently disqualified him (after having won the event) they feel that he was inelegible.

 

let's say the team was disqualified. How would the results be adjusted. What would happen to all of the teams that the disqualified team had defeated. How deeply should one go to adjust the event results. What a nightmare! Im sure the acbl said "lets avoid that hassle and just disqualify the player and let the team keep its victory".

 

As an aside i too played in the event and was beaten by the team in question in the quarter finals. They outplayed us and deserved to win the match and would have won with or without the internationalist.

[Mbodell]

let's say the team was disqualified. How would the results be adjusted. What would happen to all of the teams that the disqualified team had defeated. How deeply should one go to adjust the event results. What a nightmare! Im sure the acbl said "lets avoid that hassle and just disqualify the player and let the team keep its victory".

The easiest adjustment, which would clearly not oversell anything, is to give each team that this team beat credit for winning the match and then going out. So if you lost to them in the final you now come 1st. If you lost to them in the quarterfinals now you move up to 3/4 from 5/8. If you lost to them in the round of 64, you get the match award. That seems the easiest fair adjustment. It isn't the fairest adjustment since the team that lost in the round of 64 might well be the best team of all the non-ineligible teams and that this is the team that ought to be 1st, but that seems more problematic to adjust.

[MFA]

You gotta have prizes for bridge tournaments. Otherwise, people wouldn't participate around here, anyway.

 

They don't have to be cash prizes, other prizes are fine if they are nice (i.e. not just wine).

 

Things I've won at tournaments other than cash include but are not limited too:

 

* Wine (some bad, some good)

* Perfume

* Chocolate

* Cheese (tournament in one of the Dutch cheese capitals, Alkmaar)

* Suitcase

* Pyjamas (yes, really!)

* Hotel coupon

* Dinner coupon

* Bridge books

* Knife set

* Free entry to same tournament in the following year

I agree with having prizes. Getting some prize, any prize, is part of winning IMO.

 

Btw, I think the 3 most curious prizes I have won in bridge are

 

- 1 giant, smoked salami.

- 10 pounds of wheat flour. (Won in Sweden...)

- 20 tea towels with cute smiling cows. (Won in Holland...)

[TimG]

Probably my biggest peeve with the ACBL (I kid you not): no trophies, no prize money.

 

Used to be that trophies were commonplace. I don't know what happened.

Used to be that there were just a few events at a tournament. About 15 years ago, I counted the winners at a five day New England regional and found that there were over 100 individuals that went home with a legitimate claim to having won a regional (gold point) event. District 25 (New England) used to give event winners a free play good for an identical event, but that became impractical with the huge number of winners.

[awm]

It may be worth mentioning that Don Krauss, who played in the Bermuda Bowl for the USA a number of years ago (with Bob Hamman) is still eligible for 0-5000 events in the ACBL. Like the person mentioned in this thread, he more or less stopped playing for some time, but has been playing more often recently. He almost ended up on a team for GNT A (0-5000) in District 23, but decided not to play at the last minute (perhaps because he didn't really want to play in a limited event) and was eventually added to the district's GNT Open team.

 

Looking at the ACBL policy, it seems that they made the mistake of using the terms "Flight A" rather than "Open" which suggests that foreign internationals would definitely be eligible to play in GNT A which is also 0-5000. This certainly places such a player in a "gray area" in the regulations (at minimum) so it may not be fair to totally disqualify him and his team.

[pclayton]

Situation:

 

Former foreign international player (30+ yrs ago) of some repute back then (2nd, 3rd Euro teams, Rosenblum/BB participant) moves to U.S. 30 yrs ago, apparently doesn't play a ton during last few decades but playing more last few years. Didn't get points transferred over. Enters 0-5000 limited event on team of 5, but later disqualified.

 

Opinions on what should happen to rest of team?

About 10 years ago in D23 a team with an ineligible player won the GNT's (Flight B I believe).

 

The District deliberated between:

 

1. DQ'ing the entire team (and letting the 2nd place team win);

 

2. DQ'ing the person and allowing a sub.

 

They chose 2, which I think was the wrong move.

 

I don't think knowledge by their teammates has any bearing on the decision. It is hard to prove, and you can argue that they would not have won without the ineligible player.